Obama Makes Jimmy Carter Look Good

[Diogenes]

That it is an official record of the State of Hawaii, I have no doubt. That it is an official record as is expected to constitute Barack Obama's birth certificate I also have no doubt. That this is an image of an old record I have no doubt.

What I have doubts about is whether or not it is a true copy of the ORIGINAL birth certificate. Here is what I see that is peculiar about it.

1. It is obviously the image of the top of a page in a bound book. It is not a separate and individual document. It appears they have used a border of some sort to mask off the upper and lower portion of the page, as well as the opposite page.

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They may very well have a mask, with arrows and a notation such as "Place Book Here to Fit Birth Certificate in Proper Alignment on Security Paper." This isn't an old copy, after all.

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2. The masked off portion of the page is covering the exact place where the Nordyke birth certificate says:

" This certifies that the above is a True and Correct Copy of the Original Record on file in the Research, Planning and Statistics Office Hawaii State Department of Health."

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That may very well have been a boilerplate taped-in place mask on the Xerox. No contemporary pic of the Xerox in question, so we'll never be able to tell, but that's what I'd do (and have done in the past) with documents that needed boilerplate phrases added to them.

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3. The 2011 era rubber stamp imprint above the current directors signature says that it is a true copy of a record. It conspicuously lacks the adjective "Original." One would think it would be right under the last line on the document (as it is with the Nordyke certificate) yet that exact spot is peculiarly masked off.

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If you look at the http://www.scribd.com/doc/17772843/NBC- ... ate-Photos Nordyke cert there (it's in negative, btw) you can see that the boilerplate you're looking for is flat against the xerox glass, while the book page is slightly curved. Plus, there's a slight mis-alignment between it and the certificate itself.

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I suspect the Original document has been amended, and this is as close as they can come to producing a long form birth certificate without letting on that the original has been amended. I think it is no accident that the word "Original" is omitted, and that the place where it normally would be is covered up with that Anti-copy masking.

Diogenes - I have a great deal of respect for you on this forum. However, I'm a bit concerned that you're seeing here what you really, decidedly, passionately WANT to see, not what's really in front of you. If you're invested in the idea that the cert is a fraud, then there's nothing that can be done to dissuade you of that. I've spent a lot of time handling personnel records, and I haven't seen a single thing that's out of the norm on this.

I've seen that the shading on the left side of the cert proves it's a fake. The lack of shading in the right side proves it's a fake. That there's no shading on all four sides proves it's a fake. That it doesn't look like the Nordyke cert proves it's a fake. That the Registrar's signature proves it's a fake. That the differing rubber stamp sizes proves it's a fake. That the funky signature for the registrar proves it's a fake. (If THAT was enough to prove something a fake, god help us all in the military whenever a signature's required...) That the little x's above the 'twin' and 'triplet' boxes proves it's a fake. That the X being misaligned in the 'single' box proves it's a fake, that the varying shading of the typewritten letters proves it's a fake, that the Father and mother's names being in ALL CAPS proves it's a fake. That it's on security paper proves it's fake, that the P.M. in block 5b proves it's a forgery, that the partially missing K in block 16.... you get the drift.

If you want to believe it's fake, I can't change your mind. I won't be able to, for there's no proof that'll bust your certainty that it's fake.

I believe that what you're seeing is a genuine copy. Short of seeing the original record book, I'm going to go with this. It looks real, it looks like it came from the '60s. It's not done in Microsoft Word with non-period fonts. Absent any compelling, visible (not made up or speculative) reason, as near as I can tell and as far as I'm concerned, it's the real thing.

BTW, from your 6:16 post...

I think someone added that green anti-copy cross hatch to the document, and made certain to obscure from view anything lower than that last visible line.

Sigh. As opposed to simply xeroxing the book certificate onto a sheet of security paper? Then scanning said sheet and making it into a PDF?

I've explained my reasons for thinking it's genuine, based on my own records handling experience. I know they won't suffice.

Sorry about that - but I simply can't beat that sort of thinking.

I'm going to make this short. I don't believe it is fake. I believe it is a copy of a real record. (except for the green cross hatching.)

I DON'T think it's an original birth certificate.

[seedload]

Congratulations to President Obama for ordering the attack that took out Bin Laden. A job well done. Congratulations to President Obama for acting autonomously without the need to inform allies or that Pakistani government of our plans. Congratulations to President Obama for having the intelligence to send in ground forces to do the job rather than ordering an imperfect and unprovable air strike. And, congratulations to the President for having the class and dignity to personally call President Bush and President Clinton before addressing the nation on the action and to recognize the efforts of the military under himself and President Bush for making this happen in his address.

Despite my disagreements with the President on ideological issues, I am still proud to be an American and he is still my President.

regards

[Diogenes]

Congratulations to President Obama for ordering the attack that took out Bin Laden. A job well done. Congratulations to President Obama for acting autonomously without the need to inform allies or that Pakistani government of our plans. Congratulations to President Obama for having the intelligence to send in ground forces to do the job rather than ordering an imperfect and unprovable air strike. And, congratulations to the President for having the class and dignity to personally call President Bush and President Clinton before addressing the nation on the action and to recognize the efforts of the military under himself and President Bush for making this happen in his address.

Despite my disagreements with the President on ideological issues, I am still proud to be an American and he is still my President.

regards

The best I can manage is to give him Kudos for not screwing this up. I give full credit to the men and women in Uniform who made this happen.

[bcglorf]

I know there have been several accusations in thread asking why Obama didn't just release the long form from the start. The obvious suggestion that it shouldn't have been necessary and that it wouldn't have made any difference to birthers any ways seems to have been rejected.

Maybe this is the more appropriate response.



I know, it's cheeky and antagonistic. I believe the remaining birther arguments are far lower though, so I'm ok with it.

[ladajo]

Congratulations to President Obama for ordering the attack that took out Bin Laden. A job well done. Congratulations to President Obama for acting autonomously without the need to inform allies or that Pakistani government of our plans. Congratulations to President Obama for having the intelligence to send in ground forces to do the job rather than ordering an imperfect and unprovable air strike. And, congratulations to the President for having the class and dignity to personally call President Bush and President Clinton before addressing the nation on the action and to recognize the efforts of the military under himself and President Bush for making this happen in his address.

Despite my disagreements with the President on ideological issues, I am still proud to be an American and he is still my President.

regards

The best I can manage is to give him Kudos for not screwing this up. I give full credit to the men and women in Uniform who made this happen.

You might want to limit the Kudos. It took him 5 National Security Council meetings to figure out what to do and how to do it. Bin Laden could have bolted any time since last August when they figured out the compound.

[Diogenes]

I want to announce that I am now convinced that Obama is an Article II qualified "Natural born citizen", and he is indeed a legitimate President.

It is my own research done just this morning that has led to this conclusion.

[bcglorf]

I want to announce that I am now convinced that Obama is an Article II qualified "Natural born citizen", and he is indeed a legitimate President.

It is my own research done just this morning that has led to this conclusion.

I deeply respect the effort it may have took to say this. I am just as deeply curious what your research turned up that was so persuasive. Anything that can be shared?

[Diogenes]

I want to announce that I am now convinced that Obama is an Article II qualified "Natural born citizen", and he is indeed a legitimate President.

It is my own research done just this morning that has led to this conclusion.

I deeply respect the effort it may have took to say this. I am just as deeply curious what your research turned up that was so persuasive. Anything that can be shared?

This piece of evidence convinced me Barack is a Natural born citizen. I am not joking.




http://www.vh1.com/artists/az/kenton_st ... bumId=8975

[hanelyp]

The current occupier of the white house was born with dual citizenship. I consider "natural born citizen" to by from birth a citizen of the US, and only the US. Divided loyalties is specifically what the founders wanted to prevent.

[Ivy Matt]

And you're perfectly free to use that rationale when you go to the voting booth in 2012.

[Diogenes]

And you're perfectly free to use that rationale when you go to the voting booth in 2012.

A more apt description would be "Let's Make a Deal!"

Do you want what is behind Door number 1? or

Do you want what is behind Door number 2? or

Do you want what is behind Door number 3?



With information intentionally withheld from the public, how sensible of a decision can voters possibly make?


Of course, some of them will vote on the basis of a pants crease, and for those, there simply is no help.

[Ivy Matt]

That's actually not far from the analogy I would make, except I would use peas and thimbles. Obama has many thimbles and zero or more peas hidden under them. He is not legally obligated to turn over any of his thimbles. However, he will, on occasion, turn over a thimble for his marks after they've been pressing him long and loudly. He gets to choose which thimble he turns over, and when. Each time he turns over a thimble, and there is no pea under it, he wins, and his marks lose.

Meanwhile, he may have one or more peas that are hidden in plain sight, not under any thimbles. But, of course, they are less interesting than the supposedly hidden ones.

[Diogenes]

That's actually not far from the analogy I would make, except I would use peas and thimbles. Obama has many thimbles and zero or more peas hidden under them. He is not legally obligated to turn over any of his thimbles. However, he will, on occasion, turn over a thimble for his marks after they've been pressing him long and loudly. He gets to choose which thimble he turns over, and when. Each time he turns over a thimble, and there is no pea under it, he wins, and his marks lose.

Meanwhile, he may have one or more peas that are hidden in plain sight, not under any thimbles. But, of course, they are less interesting than the supposedly hidden ones.

I think I figured out what he is hiding. (or I should say, one of the things.)

[choff]

Interesting thing about taking out Bin Laden, apparently the raid was being watched real time by Obama and his staff, probably via cameras mounted on the commandos helmets or rifles, or the remotely piloted helicopter.

How many past presidents have ordered soldiers to conduct military operations resulting in enemy casualties and watched the orders being carried out real time, interactively. There are previous presidents who served as officers in wartime prior to taking office, who would have, but Obama has no military background.

My impression of Barack Obama since the raid is that the experience has made him more serious and mature. It couldn't not have had a deep emotional impact on his character.

[ladajo]

A little wishful thinking. They were watching an overhead drone.
Bandwidth is not there yet for helmet relays. Almost, but not quite.
Maybe in a few months or next year.
The trouble is battery packs with enough nut to reach a repeater and carry the bandwidth, but still be tactically mobile.
Almost.