Republican Support For Slave Labor In America?

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Diogenes
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Re: Republican Support For Slave Labor In America?

Post by Diogenes »

ladajo wrote:I agree that Medicare and Medicaid are disrupting the natural free market for medical care. And even more so fundamental an issue is that with the advent of medical insurance, there is no such thing as a medical free market. Medicare and Medicaid are but manifestations of insurance disruption in a market.
Insurance is another falsity foisted on the masses to allow making money off them.
Insurance is inherantly gambling, and in gambling, the house always wins.
If you took away insurance, folks would live a lot smarter and not beyond their means. They would pay way more attention to risk management, instead of having an underlying sub-consocious "safety net" that wispers to them, all is good, someone else is going to pay for their mistakes.

Did you ever stop to think about how the cost dynamic would change for the medical industry without insurance? It would get real cheap real fast.
Some may try to argue that it would limit innovation and access. I say not true. It is a market, that is skewed to support a few both in earnings and access. It is not universal, nor will it be as long as it is externally burdened by the insured and liabilities for practitioners.

Your introduction of the war on drugs into this discussion is non-sequitur. Illicit drugs are not related to national fiscal policies nor the fleecing of the masses.
The points we are discussing focus to the concept of dynamics in chaotic cyclic systems. The more complex the system, the more likely it will resonate and cause (in effect) fats and thins in the loop of piping. Where sections accumulate disproportionate concentrations of stuff at the expense of all other sections. The problem we have in the national economy is that these fat concentrations are demanding more than the system has to offer. Think of it like your circulatory system. If to much blood goes elsewhere, pressure drops and you go into shock and die because your brain doesn't get enough. The brain in our discussion is the contributing members of the public mass. Pressure is falling fast. The economy is in shock. And more demands and artificial constraints and restraints are preventing it from self regulating back to safety.
So in short, yes, we need to reconsider all of it. You are right. Except the drugs lunacy, which does not belong in this conversation.

Amen! Preach it brother!

Insurance and Medicare/Medicaid have badly distorted the market. Medical Insurance itself is a response to government attempts at price and wage controls.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

GIThruster
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Re: Republican Support For Slave Labor In America?

Post by GIThruster »

Unfortunately., we are well past avoiding OBamacare. We had a second vote and the nation voted to keep the changes. Like every other form of entitlement, it will be impossible to remove it now.

It's time conservatives focused attention on reforming entitlements so as to make them workable, siuch as Social Security which is the first scheduled to crash and burn.

We are never going to see medicare, medicaid or OBamacare removed. That's just a fact of life now and the sooner conservatives get used to this, the sooner they can get busy salvaging our failing economy.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

ladajo
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Re: Republican Support For Slave Labor In America?

Post by ladajo »

Teahive wrote:Insurance (and I mean actual insurance) is a product of the free market and all about risk management.

ladajo wrote:Originally it was "free association". But that went away shortly there after.
The backlash for this is now known as "Right to Work" laws.

You fundamentally can not consider Unions as "Free Association". There was no choice. That was a myth that died at birth.
That's like saying, the myth that government could do any good died at birth. Yes, there might be rampant corruption and reinterpretation, but the original idea has not entirely disappeared.
No, actual insurance is gambling. If you do not understand that, then you do not understand insurance. "Risk management" is a nice way of saying "Gambling".

Unions have been painted many colors. At conception the concept was noble. However the midwife determined immediately, and probably before birth that it was a lifetime opportunity to make a buck. This has nothing to do with "government". One thing is clear, government interference in any free market construct is wrought with hazards and risk to balance. Government's role should only be to hold cheating at risk. Play fair, and the market will be fair. Unions were all or nothings from birth. The governemnt saw to it.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

JLawson
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Re: Republican Support For Slave Labor In America?

Post by JLawson »

ladajo wrote: No, actual insurance is gambling. If you do not understand that, then you do not understand insurance. "Risk management" is a nice way of saying "Gambling".
This is very true.

Take car insurance. The insurance company is betting you're not going to have an accident. You're betting you will. If you win, you get to play again, only the buy-in is higher.

Life insurance - again, you're betting you're gonna croak within a predetermined time frame. They're betting you won't. If you 'win', at least your beneficiaries get to enjoy the payoff.

GIthruster wrote:We are never going to see medicare, medicaid or OBamacare removed. That's just a fact of life now and the sooner conservatives get used to this, the sooner they can get busy salvaging our failing economy.
Rather like trying to bail out a boat, with the people in it kicking more holes in the side. Hate to say it - but it may be necessary to let the whole system crash and burn, kill 3/4ths of the lawyers (and ALL politicians who graduated from any law school, or who are products of 'political dynasties') and attempt to rebuild from the ashes. The system is too complex, it must be simplified, and layers of lawyers pretty much make that impossible.
When opinion and reality conflict - guess which one is going to win in the long run.

Teahive
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Re: Republican Support For Slave Labor In America?

Post by Teahive »

ladajo wrote:No, actual insurance is gambling. If you do not understand that, then you do not understand insurance. "Risk management" is a nice way of saying "Gambling".
You can call any activity that depends on uncertain outcomes "gambling" if you wish. Certainly investment falls under that category. So do many everyday decisions.

However, gamblers usually take a risk by betting on a "neutral" event, to get a chance to be better off. They increase the outcome spread. People seeking insurance are instead looking to dampen the possible impact of a "bad" event. They decrease the outcome spread. If you get seriously ill, that's bad enough. You can probably do without ruinous treatment bills at that point.


And none of that changes the fact that insurance is a free market solution.

Diogenes
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Re: Republican Support For Slave Labor In America?

Post by Diogenes »

JLawson wrote: Rather like trying to bail out a boat, with the people in it kicking more holes in the side. Hate to say it - but it may be necessary to let the whole system crash and burn, kill 3/4ths of the lawyers (and ALL politicians who graduated from any law school, or who are products of 'political dynasties') and attempt to rebuild from the ashes. The system is too complex, it must be simplified, and layers of lawyers pretty much make that impossible.


It is my belief that a crash is now unstoppable, And I for one am now relieved that I no longer have to care.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Diogenes
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Re: Republican Support For Slave Labor In America?

Post by Diogenes »

Teahive wrote:

And none of that changes the fact that insurance is a free market solution.


You may think so, but I regard a law which REQUIRES me to buy it as coercive, and not free market at all.


Same thing with a law which REQUIRES me to wear a seat-belt.



And now we have a law which REQUIRES me to buy health insurance?
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

ladajo
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Re: Republican Support For Slave Labor In America?

Post by ladajo »

Teahive wrote:
ladajo wrote:No, actual insurance is gambling. If you do not understand that, then you do not understand insurance. "Risk management" is a nice way of saying "Gambling".
You can call any activity that depends on uncertain outcomes "gambling" if you wish. Certainly investment falls under that category. So do many everyday decisions.

However, gamblers usually take a risk by betting on a "neutral" event, to get a chance to be better off. They increase the outcome spread. People seeking insurance are instead looking to dampen the possible impact of a "bad" event. They decrease the outcome spread. If you get seriously ill, that's bad enough. You can probably do without ruinous treatment bills at that point.


And none of that changes the fact that insurance is a free market solution.
Nope. I disagree. You can not call any activity that depends on uncertain outcomes "gambling". Specifically, "gambling" is where an actor enters a situation, which requires an investment on his part, and he seeks to improve his position by making this entry and investment. The outcome is not certain, but the choice of entry and investment is. The entry, investment & uncertainty are all required together for it to be "gambling". If any component is missing, and it is no longer gambling. For example, being forced to play Russian Roulette is not gambling. You did not choose to play.
Insurance is gambling. It requires all three components. Government requirement to have insurance removes the choice part. Now it is no longer gambling. It is another form of social welfare. And like any social welfare, eventually you run out of other people's money. In the case of free market insurance, it self regulates because cost/risk/return and choice create conditions of supply and demand. Mandating insurance, is like mandating minimum wage, it biases and unbalances the natural center of the supply and demand. This in turn causes an un-natural weighting on cost and availability. The most fair and efficient market balance point is the one it finds without artificial biasing.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Teahive
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Re: Republican Support For Slave Labor In America?

Post by Teahive »

Time wasted on a point no one was arguing.

ladajo
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Location: North East Coast

Re: Republican Support For Slave Labor In America?

Post by ladajo »

I wasn't arguing. :)
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

MSimon
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Re: Republican Support For Slave Labor In America?

Post by MSimon »

Your introduction of the war on drugs into this discussion is non-sequitur.
Really? Preventing research on the CB1 and CB2 systems has nothing to do with supporting the pharma cartel?

Changes in endocannabinoid levels and/or CB2 receptor expressions have been reported in almost all diseases affecting humans,[34] ranging from cardiovascular, gastrointestinal, liver, kidney, neurodegenerative, psychiatric, bone, skin, autoimmune, lung disorders to pain and cancer.

CB2

CB1

Immune System Modulation - Cannabis Science

CBD Science - HPLC Analysis
They are just trying to keep you from being addicted to natural products at the cost of 1/10th of a cent per dose when they are more than willing to sell you an FDA and doctor approved, pharmacy sold product that will do the job for a dollar a dose. They have only your best interests at heart. Just ask their accountants.

From: http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/200 ... ation.html
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Re: Republican Support For Slave Labor In America?

Post by MSimon »

Or this: Harvard Study says Marijuana Cures Cancer

What if Cannabis Cures Cancer? - Full Educational Documentary Video
From: Marijuana cures cancer – US government has known since 1974

Lester Grinspoon, MD "I have come to doubt whether the FDA rules should apply to cannabis. There is no question about its safety. It is one of humanity's oldest medicines, used for thousands of years by millions of people with very little evidence of significant toxic effects. More is known about its adverse effects than about those of most prescription drugs."

~
"Cannabis will one day be seen as a wonder drug, as was penicillin in the 1940s. Like penicillin, herbal marijuana is remarkably nontoxic, has a wide range of therapeutic applications and would be quite inexpensive if it were legal" Lester Grinspoon
Heart Surgeon Dr. David Allen Explains Medical Marijuana
Dr. Allen suggest cannabis with the proper ratios of CBDs be a regular part of everyone's diet for heart health.

But of course the War on Drugs has nothing to do with the practice of medicine.

Medical Marijuana prohibition is a crime against humanity and a violation of the religious precept - heal the sick.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Re: Republican Support For Slave Labor In America?

Post by MSimon »

And a little something I did this morning:

Endocannabinoids - The Science
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

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