Light Bulb Laws and Texas

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:11 pm

http://www.ecnmag.com/blogs/2013/01/us- ... ns-paradox

A commenter makes this point:

Why is it that correct analysis of cause and effect in barely non-trivial systems, like this one, appear counter-intuitive most of the time?

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I have made a similar point with regards to another question and despite the evidence on the ground was reviled by the usual suspects.

I AM amused.

Evidence counts for nothing when people get it in their heads that the question in question is a moral question. Left or right makes no difference except for the questions involved.

We are truly fortunate to live in America where people will not obey laws they don't like. I'm with Jefferson on the matter.

“What country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance?” — Thomas Jefferson

kcdodd · Post by **kcdodd** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:36 am

Well, all I know is a cfl blulb I bought 2 weeks ago for the bathroom has already burned out.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:02 am

kcdodd wrote:Well, all I know is a cfl blulb I bought 2 weeks ago for the bathroom has already burned out.

I hear about this all the timer and never experience it. We had some trouble in the early days but hardly any since. Our line voltage is 120 V and it is steady.

Do you know your line voltage?

kunkmiester · Post by **kunkmiester** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:08 am

There's a tolerance on the line voltage, it's only guaranteed to +-5% or something like that. If a CFL isn't designed for that tolerance, someone needs to be sued. There's also cheap CFLs, and better CFLs. Cheap ones don't do as well in enclosures and such.

The last two bulbs I bought have been LEDs. You can get them now for costs comparable to the CFLs, and I do like them better.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:22 am

I'm about 10 miles (by crow flight) from the Byron nuke plant which supplies Chicago. That may have something to do with it.

My guess is that "high" voltage is better than low because of lower average current.

paperburn1 · Post by **paperburn1** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:16 am

MSimon wrote:I'm about 10 miles (by crow flight) from the Byron nuke plant which supplies Chicago. That may have something to do with it.

My guess is that "high" voltage is better than low because of lower average current.

Took one apart one that failed early on me and they had a diode pushed up next to a transformer and the heat took it out. looked to me they did very little thought about heat buildup in the one I looked into. but that makes sense to me as well. in my travels I usually see these bulbs hanging without an enclosure so heat would not be as big of a problem. anyway that's my two cents on the problem. (Replacing the diode fixed it by the way.)

Stubby · Post by **Stubby** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:03 pm

CFLs suck
go LED

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:00 pm

Stubby wrote:CFLs suck
go LED

Something else we agree on.

Stubby · Post by **Stubby** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:27 pm

holy crap

Stubby · Post by **Stubby** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:30 pm

paperburn1 wrote:
MSimon wrote:I'm about 10 miles (by crow flight) from the Byron nuke plant which supplies Chicago. That may have something to do with it.

My guess is that "high" voltage is better than low because of lower average current.
Took one apart one that failed early on me and they had a diode pushed up next to a transformer and the heat took it out. looked to me they did very little thought about heat buildup in the one I looked into. but that makes sense to me as well. in my travels I usually see these bulbs hanging without an enclosure so heat would not be as big of a problem. anyway that's my two cents on the problem. (Replacing the diode fixed it by the way.)

the ones i have taken apart were not designed to be taken apart
the ones we have used do not last anywhere near what they say they will.

paperburn1 · Post by **paperburn1** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:32 pm

Stubby wrote:
paperburn1 wrote:
MSimon wrote:I'm about 10 miles (by crow flight)

the ones i have taken apart were not designed to be taken apart
the ones we have used do not last anywhere near what they say they will.

Your right about that, they are not economical to repair and I am overly curious at times of how things work. The ones that work best for me were bought by the electric coop. The cost 4 dollars apiece and were subsidised by the coop.
I have an idea of the quality of the ones off the shelf, they were the ones that failed on me. Cost 2 dollars apiece and made in china. Ended up not saving on the purchase of them. Never did hook a kill- a -watt meter up to one to see how good they really were at saving elect. I just stick with the ones form my elec coop.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:13 am

paperburn1 wrote:
Stubby wrote:
paperburn1 wrote: Your right about that, they are not economical to repair and I am overly curious at times of how things work. The ones that work best for me were bought by the electric coop. The cost 4 dollars apiece and were subsidised by the coop.
I have an idea of the quality of the ones off the shelf, they were the ones that failed on me. Cost 2 dollars apiece and made in china. Ended up not saving on the purchase of them. Never did hook a kill- a -watt meter up to one to see how good they really were at saving elect. I just stick with the ones form my elec coop.

I buy the cheapest I can find. I generally get 10K to 15K hours - indoor use.

paperburn1 · Post by **paperburn1** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:53 am

Just for the nerd in all of us a rough ROI
100 Watts X 10,000 Hours = 1,000,000 Watts / 1,000 = 1000 KWH
1000 Killowatt Hours X Electric rate .08 = 80.00 + 5.0 cost of lamp
Total cost to run that light bulb (on average rated life) is $85.00

That's why the new fluorescent lamps are so cost effective. .

18 Watts (100 equivelent) X 10,000 Hours = 180,000 W / 1,000 = 180KWH X .08 = 14.40 + 6.00 cost of lamp = $20.40
In reality I would put that number closer to 25.00 as the bulbs tend to dim and getting the next higher rating prevents that from being noticed. also you get the advantage of not changing your buld 8 to ten times

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:29 pm

paperburn1 wrote:Just for the nerd in all of us a rough ROI
100 Watts X 10,000 Hours = 1,000,000 Watts / 1,000 = 1000 KWH
1000 Killowatt Hours X Electric rate .08 = 80.00 + 5.0 cost of lamp
Total cost to run that light bulb (on average rated life) is $85.00

That's why the new fluorescent lamps are so cost effective. .

18 Watts (100 equivelent) X 10,000 Hours = 180,000 W / 1,000 = 180KWH X .08 = 14.40 + 6.00 cost of lamp = $20.40
In reality I would put that number closer to 25.00 as the bulbs tend to dim and getting the next higher rating prevents that from being noticed. also you get the advantage of not changing your buld 8 to ten times

Incandescents at $5? Seems a little high.

And the efficiency rating

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_fluorescent_lamp
Compared to general-service incandescent lamps giving the same amount of visible light, CFLs use one-fifth to one-third the electric power, and last eight to fifteen times longer.

In my experience you need a 25W CFL to make the same light as a 100 W Edison bulb.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:33 pm

Also note your electricity at $ .08 per KWh is at the low end. Plus a line charge about equal to that is added to the bill.

Thing is - if the economic case is so good why do we need a law?