Who's gonna win?

[MSimon]

You must get your news from Liberal Democrats, hired from New York City (79% for Barack Obama) and who join a Union.

Might as well ask the opinion of KKK members about blacks. You won't get the truth from that crowd.

Nope. Generally spending goes up under Rs and the Ds hold the gains. Can't find the charts now but I saw a nice one on the subject tonight. Obama is the exception.

[palladin9479]

You must get your news from Liberal Democrats, hired from New York City (79% for Barack Obama) and who join a Union.

Might as well ask the opinion of KKK members about blacks. You won't get the truth from that crowd.

Nope. Generally spending goes up under Rs and the Ds hold the gains. Can't find the charts now but I saw a nice one on the subject tonight. Obama is the exception.

Most (not all) of Obama's "spending" increase came in 2008~2009 when he stupidly ordered the cost of Afghanistan / Iraq to be put on the general books. Afterwards it was business as usual, just with dramatically lower tax revenue. Prior to that they were being financed via emergency spending measures done every year and thus kept off the general ledgers. That is how Bush prevented a stupidly large spike in spending from being shown, politically savvy if a bit under handed. Obama did the morally right thing but the politically stupid thing, wouldn't be the only time as later demonstrated. Chock it up to being green at politics and not realizing how dirty, under handed and downright deceitful you must be to succeed.

Of course none of that matters, diehard Republicans are going to crucify him and manufacture convenient reasons later.

[mvanwink5]

Obstructionist to what? Financial suicide? Idiot Democrats are dragging us over the cliff and you think the Republicans doing a little heal dragging is being obstructionist? There is already not enough money in the world to pay for existing programs and now nationalized health care has been added.

The only question is how long to the land of Greece? And increasing tax rates won't increase revenue.

Look for the US going into depression next year, no one will be investing here. Idiots.

[palladin9479]

Obstructionist to what? Financial suicide? Idiot Democrats are dragging us over the cliff and you think the Republicans doing a little heal dragging is being obstructionist? There is already not enough money in the world to pay for existing programs and now nationalized health care has been added.

The only question is how long to the land of Greece? And increasing tax rates won't increase revenue.

Look for the US going into depression next year, no one will be investing here. Idiots.

Are you saying this on the record? Cause on November 7 2013 you'll have to eat those words.

There is plenty of money in the world, too bad most of the US share is being funneled through Ireland and other external tax havens. Corporations have shifted the tax burden almost entirely onto the middle class, which is shrinking. The shrinking was bound to happen, it was unfeasible to maintain the rate at consumption the middle class was experiencing. That rate fueled those big corporate profits that then went through Ireland and into the Cayman Islands. Now its time to pay the bill and the rich have been using their influence to ensure their not stuck with any part of it.

Anyhow, this is all wasted on you and most of your ilk. There will be no revolt, no bloody conservative revolution lead by your leaders. This election wasn't even remotely close. Hopefully the GOP realizes this and returns to their previous fiscally responsible roots and serves as a counter balance to the overreaching progressive ideals.

[Stubby]

wow not even as close as everyone expected and a few surprises for Obama too.

[mvanwink5]

My ilk? LOL. The Fed has been pumping hard for the last 4 years, and especially hard to help Obama this year. The Chinese will look at the Obama campaign slogan "Forward" and say SOS. No more loan money for you. Then what? Increase tax rates? Increase borrowing? From which suckers? You're out of money. Stop defense spending? More job losses... Print more and borrow it from the Fed? Run away inflation.

Do you think anyones non investment in the US will suddenly change?

The small investor has been losing money and hoping to see an improvement for the last 4 years. My sister was waiting to decide to close the business and she is not the only one.

National health Obamination Care won't be blocked now. You really are clueless. You must think all these people losing money must be just evil and are really just hiding it.

No, I am wasting my breath talking to those of your ilk. Good luck. Forward!!!! Idiots.

[palladin9479]

wow not even as close as everyone expected and a few surprises for Obama too.

Looks like Florida is going Obama as the last votes are from the Miami area which is heavily pro-Obama.

Without Florida we're looking at 303 vs 206. With Florida's 29 votes it's a stupid landslide of 332 vs 206. That's 64 votes short of what Romney needed.

Heck Obama even won the popular vote so no cries of "voter fraud / rigging / stolen election" can assuage the hurt sphincters.

[MSimon]

Obstructionist to what? Financial suicide? Idiot Democrats are dragging us over the cliff and you think the Republicans doing a little heal dragging is being obstructionist? There is already not enough money in the world to pay for existing programs and now nationalized health care has been added.

The only question is how long to the land of Greece? And increasing tax rates won't increase revenue.

Look for the US going into depression next year, no one will be investing here. Idiots.

Are you saying this on the record? Cause on November 7 2013 you'll have to eat those words.

There is plenty of money in the world, too bad most of the US share is being funneled through Ireland and other external tax havens. Corporations have shifted the tax burden almost entirely onto the middle class, which is shrinking. The shrinking was bound to happen, it was unfeasible to maintain the rate at consumption the middle class was experiencing. That rate fueled those big corporate profits that then went through Ireland and into the Cayman Islands. Now its time to pay the bill and the rich have been using their influence to ensure their not stuck with any part of it.

Anyhow, this is all wasted on you and most of your ilk. There will be no revolt, no bloody conservative revolution lead by your leaders. This election wasn't even remotely close. Hopefully the GOP realizes this and returns to their previous fiscally responsible roots and serves as a counter balance to the overreaching progressive ideals.

Well you might want to look at the numbers. Tax rates go up and down but tax collections average about 18% of the economy with a high of about 25%.

You do know that it is easier for capital to go on strike than it is for ordinary people. Wait it out in hopes of a better day.

4) Raising taxes won’t help. Since the end of World War II, tax receipts in the US have averaged 17.7% of GDP in a very tight range. The low has been 14.4% of GDP, and the high has been 20.6% of GDP.

During that period, however, tax rates have been all over the board. Individual rates have ranged from 10% to 91%. Corporate rates from 15% to 53%. Gift taxes, estate taxes, etc. have all varied. And yet, total tax revenue has stayed nearly constant at 17.7% of GDP.

It doesn’t matter how much they increase tax rates– they won’t collect any more money.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-0 ... snt-matter

You see the problem is not political. It is mathematical.

[palladin9479]

My ilk? LOL. The Fed has been pumping hard for the last 4 years, and especially hard to help Obama this year. The Chinese will look at the Obama campaign slogan "Forward" and say SOS. No more loan money for you. Then what? Increase tax rates? Increase borrowing? From which suckers? You're out of money. Stop defense spending? More job losses... Print more and borrow it from the Fed? Run away inflation.

You really don't know how federal money works do you... just more Republican rhetoric that you heard on TV or radio.

[mvanwink5]

I read Human Action by Von Mises when I was 17. Ever heard of Austrian Economics? Murray Rothbard? Hard to find anyone more arrogant than a Socialist, yet socialism has failed for a hundred years. Go figure.

[palladin9479]

Obstructionist to what? Financial suicide? Idiot Democrats are dragging us over the cliff and you think the Republicans doing a little heal dragging is being obstructionist? There is already not enough money in the world to pay for existing programs and now nationalized health care has been added.

The only question is how long to the land of Greece? And increasing tax rates won't increase revenue.

Look for the US going into depression next year, no one will be investing here. Idiots.

Are you saying this on the record? Cause on November 7 2013 you'll have to eat those words.

There is plenty of money in the world, too bad most of the US share is being funneled through Ireland and other external tax havens. Corporations have shifted the tax burden almost entirely onto the middle class, which is shrinking. The shrinking was bound to happen, it was unfeasible to maintain the rate at consumption the middle class was experiencing. That rate fueled those big corporate profits that then went through Ireland and into the Cayman Islands. Now its time to pay the bill and the rich have been using their influence to ensure their not stuck with any part of it.

Anyhow, this is all wasted on you and most of your ilk. There will be no revolt, no bloody conservative revolution lead by your leaders. This election wasn't even remotely close. Hopefully the GOP realizes this and returns to their previous fiscally responsible roots and serves as a counter balance to the overreaching progressive ideals.

Well you might want to look at the numbers. Tax rates go up and down but tax collections average about 18% of the economy with a high of about 25%.

You do know that it is easier for capital to go on strike than it is for ordinary people. Wait it out in hopes of a better day.

4) Raising taxes won’t help. Since the end of World War II, tax receipts in the US have averaged 17.7% of GDP in a very tight range. The low has been 14.4% of GDP, and the high has been 20.6% of GDP.

During that period, however, tax rates have been all over the board. Individual rates have ranged from 10% to 91%. Corporate rates from 15% to 53%. Gift taxes, estate taxes, etc. have all varied. And yet, total tax revenue has stayed nearly constant at 17.7% of GDP.

It doesn’t matter how much they increase tax rates– they won’t collect any more money.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-0 ... snt-matter

You see the problem is not political. It is mathematical.

Increased rates on "who" is the issue. You can't raise taxes on the middle class, there is nothing left to get. Lower class has nothing to give period and actually constitutes a tax burden (unless you want rioting in the streets or outbreaks of theft / robbery's). That leaves three groups, small - medium business, large business's (corporates basically), and the upper class (notably seven figure earners, 250K a year is not rich). Small business's are similar to middle class, their already overtaxes / regulated as they don't have the money for a full tax / financial office to utilize tax loopholes. Now you have two groups left, strangely both groups are taxed at less then the rate of any of the previous groups yet wield the greatest gains from the nation.

Before you continue any of the typical rhetoric know that there are several countries in the world were upper class / large business's are more severely taxed then in the USA and those countries have strong economies. If the USA desires to continue as a 1st world country then it will need to deal with the corruption and undue influence of the upper class / corporations.

You guys like to cry "cut cut" but what would you cut? While the government is wasteful, that waste is an order of magnitude less then the amount that is needed. The closest you can get is to just delete the Medicare / Medicaid programs entirely, then you have merely a small deficit. Of course you then get rioting in the streets / chaos and whomever deletes those is swiftly elected out of office.

[MSimon]

Typically what is done to clear the books is war or revolution. Sometimes both. You might want to look at the history of the Austrian Corporal in that regard.

[palladin9479]

I read Human Action by Von Mises when I was 17. Ever heard of Austrian Economics? Murray Rothbard? Hard to find anyone more arrogant than a Socialist, yet socialism has failed for a hundred years. Go figure.

Uhh hu, keep going

Notice how when confronted you retreat to the old tired "SOCIALIST!!!!!!! DIE COMMUNIST!!!!" red scare bunker.

Still shows you don't know how federal money works.

[mvanwink5]

If you get bored look at the money supply for the last 80 years, it is exponential, and during the last 4 years it looks like a real hockey stick.

[MSimon]

If the USA desires to continue as a 1st world country then it will need to deal with the corruption and undue influence of the upper class / corporations.

The only cure for that is smaller government. We have two main parties in America. The big government Party and the bigger government party. The bigger government party has won. Not that it makes a lot of difference.

We will just be going to ruin a little faster with the current set up.