We’ve Already Passed the Tipping Point for Orbital Debris

DeltaV · Post by **DeltaV** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:34 pm

zapkitty · Post by **zapkitty** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:52 pm

DeltaV wrote:We’ve Already Passed the Tipping Point for Orbital Debris

This is why unprotected TPS systems such as those found on lifting bodies and winged vehicles are not a good idea for future crewed vehicles.

The capsule designs can shield the most critical portions of their TPS with their service modules but an equivalent shield would be very expensive for a Dream Chaser and nigh on impossible for a Skylon.

DeltaV · Post by **DeltaV** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:37 pm

If the Kessler Syndrome occurs there will be more vehicle subsystems needing protection, not just the TPS.

Stubby · Post by **Stubby** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:03 pm

Well that is going to be a problem. We have a hard enough time getting government to clean up after itself planetside.

Time for the Astrohoover.
or the Astrolux
or Dyson Sphere (pun intended)

but seriously how does one clean that stuff up?

Man we need Polywell

kurt9 · Post by **kurt9** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:40 pm

Most of this stuff is in decaying orbits. Just wait for it to come down over time.

Maybe we could have orbital lasers zap the stuff, make it a national holiday with carnivals, just like in Max Headroom. Zik Zak Corporation's annual Sky Clearance Day.

DeltaV · Post by **DeltaV** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:51 pm

kurt9 wrote:Most of this stuff is in decaying orbits. Just wait for it to come down over time.

Long wait.

DeltaV · Post by **DeltaV** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:12 pm

This problem is an opportunity for risk-taking private space entrepreneurs. Imagine a slew of private companies going after space junk.

Governments and/or space insurance consortiums would, however, have to pay sizable awards for the recovered items to make the effort worthwhile. Some recovered items would be quite valuable to collectors and museums even without such help (e.g., the Vanguard satellite, now the oldest in orbit).

Then there's the classified stuff...

If Commercial Space really takes off, the need for orbital cleanup will increase in parallel.

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:14 pm

Please also do not forget that part of the "increase" in orbital objects corresponds to our improving ability to see them.

And that is not talking about the classified stuff, SSN or in flight...

DeltaV · Post by **DeltaV** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:23 pm

ladajo wrote:Please also do not forget that part of the "increase" in orbital objects corresponds to our improving ability to see them.

So the problem is worse than thought, since a lot of stuff was/is being missed.

Stubby · Post by **Stubby** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:36 pm

DeltaV wrote:
kurt9 wrote:Most of this stuff is in decaying orbits. Just wait for it to come down over time.
Long wait.

[imag]http://www.nap.edu/books/0309051258/xht ... g00006.jpg[/img]

[imag]http://ccar.colorado.edu/asen5050/proje ... s_time.png[/img]

that is what I thought. LEO is fine but most sats are further out to cover more area.

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:22 pm

DeltaV wrote:
ladajo wrote:Please also do not forget that part of the "increase" in orbital objects corresponds to our improving ability to see them.
So the problem is worse than thought, since a lot of stuff was/is being missed.

One could argue that. But at the same time, one could also argue that if all that unseen crap was flying around so far without hitting stuff, maybe it isn't as bad as thought.
I personally think that the best part is that when there is a failure, for the most part, they really don't know why.

DeltaV · Post by **DeltaV** » Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:18 pm

The problem is not so much what is getting hit now, but how the chain reaction will progress, if it is already irreversible.

Imagine LEO-to-MEO getting trashed in under one year, a decade or two from now, and what that would do to a "wired" world.

hanelyp · Post by **hanelyp** » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:05 pm

Instead of just complaining, how would a mess of orbital debris be cleaned up?

Big pieces could be picked up or kicked into disposal orbits if we had cheap enough space flight.

How much debris is conductive, and would experience drag flying through a magnetic field? Would a satellite generating a strong magnetic field around itself do any good?

How much is small debris that could pick up an electric charge if a field was established between different orbital levels?

kunkmiester · Post by **kunkmiester** » Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:17 am

Open up salvage rights, I'll sweep the skies clean to feed my automated orbital satellite factory, turn old junk into new junk.

paperburn1 · Post by **paperburn1** » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:12 pm

hanelyp wrote:Instead of just complaining, how would a mess of orbital debris be cleaned up?

Big pieces could be picked up or kicked into disposal orbits if we had cheap enough space flight.

How much debris is conductive, and would experience drag flying through a magnetic field? Would a satellite generating a strong magnetic field around itself do any good?

How much is small debris that could pick up an electric charge if a field was established between different orbital levels?

small space base laser to burn the front of anything passing to push it into a lower orbit. within or capability's now but I suspect it could also be a mighty handy weapon for blinding Sat's and therefore be hated by every space faring nation that does not have one of their own.

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We’ve Already Passed the Tipping Point for Orbital Debris

We’ve Already Passed the Tipping Point for Orbital Debris

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