The most Dangerous Addiction

[tomclarke]

Can I be emotionally disturbed too or does this only apply to US citizens?

[GIThruster]

Are you disturbed yet? Well you will be.

This is the forth time you've made threats, both overt and veiled; to me in this forum, Simon. If this continues, you'll be hearing from the FBI.

[hanelyp]

When you try to force people to do something they will do the opposite. Otherwise they will do as they dam well please. So you have to ask yourself "will opposition or indifference get you more of what you want?"

Another counterexample that Msimon will really not like: Alcohol prohibition, while having some bad side effects, did result in a major reduction in drinking, which continued after prohibition was repealed.

Restrictions on when and where you can buy and consume, combined with extensive advertising, like the modern anti-tobacco campaign, may have had a similar effect on alcohol consumption, with fewer side effects. I note that the difficulty with alcohol prohibition derived from widespread acceptance of drinking. Any law is going to have problems if a large portion of the population has no problem with the prohibited activity.

[Betruger]

Non of your efforts to explain them away are very reassuring.

They are not, and that is why feeding the already overfed nanny state larvae is no good.

The future I see is a Skynet enforced Aristocracy with those in power having absolute and total control over every living human on the planet.

Skynet is unavoidable, short of some kind of Amish sectarianism. The technologically empowered future is no Utopia, it's some freak mix of Dante's circles of Hell and biblical Eden. You cannot stop technology. It is coming.
Today people are addicted to the net. What happens when the net and video game interfaces get to the point they're all but indistinguishable? Nevermind if AI is on par.

Sooner than later the power afforded to any and all Men will be nothing short of potentially apocalyptic. Nanny staters ain't gonna vote anything but the same kind of crooks we get today. I don't get how you can simultaneously argue for the control of people for their own good via govt "because they can't help themselves" but not see just what kind of FUBAR govt-enabling (& therefore "skynet"-enabling) populace this same culture of govt is breeding.

--

I haven't explained away anything, but if I would I'd probably start with major life extension as one good first step towards adequate maturity if Man should survive. There's just too little wisdom trickled down into average people's minds nowadays, within the available lifespan, to yield a future-proof public.
Post-scarcity also ought to happen in roughly the same timeframe to quell nuclear/bio/cyber bitch fights.

That's my take on an optimistic effort, on what we should do hoping for the best. My private expectation is that the world will unavoidably keep getting more and more frick up, with an ever increasing fractalism of good and bad, use and abuse, wisdom and ignorance, cosmically powerful tech versus that same tech's impossibly opaque mechanisms (viz today's "geek" wizards) etc etc. This increasing complexity is the one trend I do "believe" in as the lot of human civilization at least until it's reprogrammed e.g. via future biotech.

My private plan is to find some way to weather the coming storm with as much life extension as possible, and to get as far away as possible from this crazed beehive of a planet... That's not a broken record pie in the sky dream, it's the only thing I would recommend if someone asked what the most foolproof plan were for the future - considering not any single dimension (political, mass-psychological, economic, tech, etc) on its own in a vacuum, but all of them as they are mixed in practice.

They are uninhibited by any social or moral constraints.

Ironic but not worth arguing at this point - I find it just as unscrupulous to perpetuate people's tendency to the path of least resistance such as today's over-reliance on government. I find it insidious to keep people chained to each other and government, for no reward other than feeding that same government and idle cradle-to-grave brain-dead consumeristic lifestyle.

The Universe is out there waiting for us to grow into it and call it our own the same way we made most of this planet's territory, resources, etc, ours.

Are you disturbed yet? Well you will be.

This is the forth time you've made threats, both overt and veiled; to me in this forum, Simon. If this continues, you'll be hearing from the FBI.

Get a freakin grip Flanders.

[Betruger]

My view of the future depends on whether we get a working polywell fusor/focus fusion device/ or Riggatron in the next 20 years. If fusion power is a go utopia, if not then we muddle along laterally like we've been doing since the end of WW2.

This assumes we manage to keep on not nuking ourselves so smithereens of course. When you really look at the progress since the middle of the last century, the only noticeable difference is computers and biotech. No big quantum leaps, the only thing an alien visitor would see from a distance is the aircraft have jet engines.

Even muddling along is still lightspeed compared to previous historical tech development... A few centuries is a blink of an eye in the big picture, so long as enough people and knowledge worldwide survive.

[Teahive]

Religion is a diabolical plot which is so fiendishly clever that it obligates people to control their behavior for fear of punishment from a being which exists in their own mind. No greater guard could there be than that of a Person upon themselves.

A secular person recognizes no such threat of punishment, and is well aware that their actions can only be constrained by threat of mundane punishment from their peers. If they can only fool them, then they have no need to fear punishment at all.

Secular people have a super-ego, or conscience, too.

I do wonder, though, does your use of the term religion encompass folk tales and superstitions such as the bogeyman?

But what is the attractor to which subsequent generations will be drawn toward your moral principles?

What's yours?

[GIThruster]

If you want to continue discussing the pros and cons of various religions (or non-religion), I'd prefer you find another forum entirely. This sort of thing can be pure poison to a community such as ours.

Some people need to be smacked over the head repeatedly before they get the message. For some unknown reason, it is okay for Simon to pollute one thread after another (hundreds of them now) with his sociopathic views of drug abuse, but Joe has laid down the law and said we're not going to see the same happen with religion. Yet here we have another thread polluted by people pushing the boundaries.

[MSimon]

Are you disturbed yet? Well you will be.

This is the forth time you've made threats, both overt and veiled; to me in this forum, Simon. If this continues, you'll be hearing from the FBI.

Bring it. I have a fat dossier with them. I'm sure they would like to hear from you. Then you will have a file too.

I'm sure your paranoia will be most welcome to them. They are always looking for more work. They get bigger budgets that way.

[MSimon]

Alcohol prohibition, while having some bad side effects, did result in a major reduction in drinking, which continued after prohibition was repealed.

Quite right. For the first year or two until the criminals got organized. And stashes ran out.

And if you don't count the people blinded or killed by rotgut.

[MSimon]

If you want to continue discussing the pros and cons of various religions (or non-religion), I'd prefer you find another forum entirely. This sort of thing can be pure poison to a community such as ours.

Some people need to be smacked over the head repeatedly before they get the message. For some unknown reason, it is okay for Simon to pollute one thread after another (hundreds of them now) with his sociopathic views of drug abuse, but Joe has laid down the law and said we're not going to see the same happen with religion. Yet here we have another thread polluted by people pushing the boundaries.

UH. Being in personal contact with Joe from time to time - I can tell you that he is more or less indifferent to what goes on in General. If you hate my thread hijacking show some self discipline and don't respond. Or keep your viewing habits to technical topics.

[MSimon]

Sooner than later the power afforded to any and all Men will be nothing short of potentially apocalyptic. Nanny staters ain't gonna vote anything but the same kind of crooks we get today. I don't get how you can simultaneously argue for the control of people for their own good via govt "because they can't help themselves" but not see just what kind of FUBAR govt-enabling (& therefore "skynet"-enabling) populace this same culture of govt is breeding.

Some people have a very difficult time seeing where their desires lead. And I will state categorically that mine do not lead to utopia. But there is the possibility that if you don't have to watch everyone all the time government might be a tad smaller.

[MSimon]

And speaking of the "majority" about 56% of Americans favor pot legalization. Roughly 20% are unsure or indifferent and about 26% give or take are definitely in the prohibitionist camp. This "majority" of which you speak is a local phenomenon. You need to get out more.

[Diogenes]

OK, diogenes. You've just got too weird even for me.

But I'll let your last reply to me, which does not answer my points on our debated issue but instead raises a whole load of new weirdness, stand for others to read and make up their own minds!

PS - my parents were atheist and no established religion theist repectively.

I am trying to nudge you into thinking in a manner to which you are not accustomed. Yes, it's going to feel weird.

[Diogenes]

And speaking of the "majority" about 56% of Americans favor pot legalization. Roughly 20% are unsure or indifferent and about 26% give or take are definitely in the prohibitionist camp. This "majority" of which you speak is a local phenomenon. You need to get out more.

52% thought Barack Obama was the best choice for this Nation's government. I'll not be concerning myself with what the stupid half of the country thinks is a good idea.


The Vote needs to be restricted to taxpayers only, and photo I.D. ought to be a self evident requirement.

[Diogenes]

My view of the future depends on whether we get a working polywell fusor/focus fusion device/ or Riggatron in the next 20 years. If fusion power is a go utopia, if not then we muddle along laterally like we've been doing since the end of WW2.

While practical Nuclear Fusion will be a boon for mankind, I fail to see how it can address the concerns of which George Orwell warned us about.