Civil Rights Progress.

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:49 am

williatw wrote:When someone like GIThruster neighbor's lose their house because their teenage son was caught with or attempting to sell pot at school or something, let’s see how that affects his willingness to support the war on drugs.

How does it seem reasonable to you to invent an insane hypothetical and use it for a rational argument? Seriously, you sound like a twelve year-old.

It's obviously never going to be legal to seize assets from one person as punitive damage for a crime committed by another person.

Why would you invent such a pathetic line of reasoning and isn't doing such evidence you have an impossible to defend point of view? Best you stop embarrassing yourself now.

williatw · Post by **williatw** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:13 am

GIThruster wrote:How does it seem reasonable to you to invent an insane hypothetical and use it for a rational argument? Seriously, you sound like a twelve year-old.
It's obviously never going to be legal to seize assets from one person as punitive damage for a crime committed by another person.Why would you invent such a pathetic line of reasoning and isn't doing such evidence you have an impossible to defend point of view? Best you stop embarrassing yourself now.

You’re kidding right? You really don't know that's how asset forfeiture works? The Caswell lost their business because the authorities allege that some small fraction of the people renting rooms there were drug dealing, the Caswell property was taken for "facilitating" the crime even if they were not charged and had no knowledge of any crime.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... story.html

When the looter is the government by George F. Will

In the lawsuit titled United States of America v. 434 Main Street, Tewksbury, Massachusetts, the government is suing an inanimate object, the motel Caswell’s father built in 1955. The U.S. Department of Justice intends to seize it, sell it for perhaps $1.5 million and give up to 80 percent of that to the Tewksbury Police Department, whose budget is just $5.5 million. The Caswells have not been charged with, let alone convicted of, a crime. They are being persecuted by two governments eager to profit from what is antiseptically called the “equitable sharing” of the fruits of civil forfeiture, a process of government enrichment that often is indistinguishable from robbery.

Rather, they are victims of two piratical governments that, IJ argues, are violating the U.S. Constitution twice. They are violating the Eighth Amendment, which has been construed to forbid “excessive fines” that deprive individuals of their livelihoods. And the federal “equitable sharing” program violates the 10th Amendment by vitiating state law, thereby enabling Congress to compel the states to adopt Congress’s policies where states possess a reserved power and primary authority — in the definition and enforcement of the criminal law.
“Equitable sharing” — the consensual splitting of ill-gotten loot by the looters — reeks of the moral hazard that exists in situations in which incentives are for perverse behavior. To see where this leads, read IJ’s scalding report “Policing for Profit: The Abuse of Civil Asset Forfeiture” (http://ow.ly/aYME1), a sickening litany of law enforcement agencies padding their budgets and financing boondoggles by, for example, smelling, or imagining to smell, or pretending to smell, marijuana in cars they covet.
None of this is surprising to Madisonians, which all sensible Americans are. James Madison warned (in Federalist 48) that government power “is of an encroaching nature.” If unresisted, it produces iniquitous sharing of other people’s property. [/quote]

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:24 am

If you want to argue that Caswell was not involved you can do that, but the forfeiture was predicated upon their involvement. Your hypothetical is not.

If I loan you my boat to smuggle drugs, the law has every right to seize the boat once you're caught. It then becomes my task to sue and show I had no reasonable way to know what you were doing with my boat. This is entirely different from your hypothetical. You deliberately invented a story of the innocent being punished for the crimes of the guilty. You need to understand when you make up such ridiculous stories, it's hard to take you seriously.

williatw · Post by **williatw** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:29 am

GIThruster wrote:If you want to argue that Caswell was not involved you can do that, but the forfeiture was predicated upon their involvement. Your hypothetical is not...

I am not simply arging they wern't involved GIThruster it was never alleged they were, they were never charged, its about legalized theft read the link or do your own research. Yes you can sue them to try and get your stuff back, most people don't because of the cost/trouble involved. Law enforcement agencies know this.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:59 am

Well of course my arguments are childish. The Emperor is naked.

And funny thing is a lot of people are noticing. Ras. says 56% favor pot legalization. In Colorado wher it is on the ballot in Nov. Ras. says the number is 61%. And Ras. is no lefty polling organization.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:13 am

Wrong man killed in raid:

http://classicalvalues.com/2012/03/high ... in-plants/

Forfeiture:
http://classicalvalues.com/2011/11/sharing-the-wealth/

http://classicalvalues.com/2011/10/it-m ... e-revenue/

Caswell:
http://classicalvalues.com/2011/10/irre ... page-news/

http://classicalvalues.com/2011/07/drug ... tzgruppen/
The bounty on dopers has reached such incredible heights that the Drug Warriors are now killing old men for operating funds. The invaders who murdered Hampton, Virginia resident William Cooper swiped about $900 in cash. They seized his gun collection. They took the Lexus from his driveway. By some oversight they neglected to extract the gold fillings from his teeth.
{snip}
The police raid was triggered by an unsubstantiated tip from a still-anonymous informant that the NASA retiree — who walked with a cane and, according to his neighbors, never seemed to have any visitors — was illegally selling prescription drugs from his home.

http://classicalvalues.com/2011/05/a-pr ... or-police/

http://classicalvalues.com/2011/02/getting_drugs_o/

http://classicalvalues.com/2010/08/pot_kettle_civi/

http://classicalvalues.com/2010/07/policing_for_fu/
Perhaps the most profitable investment a community can make is establishing a POLICE K-9 UNIT. A properly trained K-9 will usually pay for itself in 60 days and keep the revenue of city hall running high by utilizing the drug forfeiture laws.

Well that ought to get you started.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:29 am

http://news.yahoo.com/fda-approves-high ... nance.html

Despite its impressive performance in clinical trials, Qsymia is not exactly a scientific breakthrough, and its development underscores the slow pace of research for obesity treatments.

The drug is actually a combination of two older drugs that have long been known to help with weight loss: phentermine and topirimate.

Phentermine is a stimulant that suppresses the appetite, and has long been used for short-term weight loss.

====

The same old same old. But you know - doctors push it so it will be OK until the hysteria starts.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:32 am

Speed for kids:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... ing/drugs/

Here are experts' opinions on how these drugs work on the brain, whether they're safe, and what's known about long-term consequences. The experts are: Harold Koplewicz, M.D., director for the New York University Child Study Center; Russell Barkley, professor of psychiatry and neurology at University of Massachusetts Medical Center; Xavier Castellanos, M.D., a top ADHD scientist; Lawrence Diller, M.D., author of Running on Ritalin; Denver psychiatrist William Dodson, M.D.; and Peter Jensen, M.D., director of Columbia University's Center for the Advancement of Children's Mental Health.

(arrow)The Ritalin Explosion

On average, two to three students in U.S. classrooms are on some kind of behavior-modifying drugs--and the numbers are increasing. Why? Here are the views of Harvey Parker, child psychologist and founder of Children and Adults with ADHD (CHADD), an advocacy group; Harold Koplewicz, M.D., director for the New York University Child Study Center; Russell Barkley, professor of psychiatry and neurology at University of Massachusetts Medical Center; Peter Jensen, M.D., director of Columbia University's Center for the Advancement of Children's Mental Health; and Denver psychiatrist William Dodson, M.D.

(arrow)The What, When, and How of Taking Ritalin

In this excerpt from Running on Ritalin: A Physician Reflects on Children, Society, and Performance in a Pill, Dr. Lawrence Diller describes the process of determining proper dosage, how long Ritalin's effects last, and possible side effects and other considerations.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:35 am

Meth for kids:

What Is Methamphetamine Used For?
People may wonder, "What is methamphetamine used for?" Although many people think of methamphetamine as an illegal street drug, it is also a prescription medication (available under the brand name Desoxyn) used to treat legitimate health problems. Methamphetamine is used for the treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and obesity.

ADHD is a condition involving difficulty paying attention, sitting still, and controlling behavior. In children with ADHD, these problems are worse than expected for a typical child of the same age. Usually, the ADHD symptoms must be present before the age of seven to qualify as ADHD. The symptoms must also affect the school, work, or social life in a negative way to qualify as ADHD (see ADHD and School and Relationships and ADHD for more information).

Although ADHD is generally thought of as a problem in children, teenagers and adults can also have ADHD. While methamphetamine has not been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for treating ADHD in adults, healthcare providers may prescribe it "off-label" for adults with ADHD.

http://mental-health.emedtv.com/methamp ... d-for.html

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:40 am

Did I mention that "alert" accuracy for the "trained" dogs is on the order of 50% - at best. You can look it up.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:50 am

I have applied the same intensity of study to the Drug Situation that I have applied to Polywell. My opponents appear to be merely the victims of government propaganda. My condolences.

In my long history of arguing the subject there is only one person who ever held his own against me. And our differences came down ultimately to differences of opinion. On the facts we agreed. His name is Clayton Cramer. A lawyer who takes his arguments seriously. We are very friendly on other subjects such as guns.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:09 am

MSimon wrote:I have applied the same intensity of study to the Drug Situation that I have applied to Polywell. My opponents appear to be merely the victims of government propaganda. My condolences.

In my long history of arguing the subject there is only one person who ever held his own against me. And our differences came down ultimately to differences of opinion. On the facts we agreed. His name is Clayton Cramer. A lawyer who takes his arguments seriously. We are very friendly on other subjects such as guns.

Let me add that Mr. Cramer has guest blogged at Classical Values a number of times. I have edited him as has my co-blogger Eric. And by edit I merely mean handled the mechanicals.

hanelyp · Post by **hanelyp** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:21 pm

Asset forfeiture is one point where the war on drugs has been corrupted. Assets should not be forfeit unless proven contraband, or as penalty for a crime for which the owner has been duly convicted.

Which does not detract in the least from the point of suppressing drug abuse to suppress associated social harm.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:10 am

hanelyp wrote:Asset forfeiture is one point where the war on drugs has been corrupted. Assets should not be forfeit unless proven contraband, or as penalty for a crime for which the owner has been duly convicted.

Which does not detract in the least from the point of suppressing drug abuse to suppress associated social harm.

So why aren't we suppressing alcohol abuse to suppress associated social harm?

Could it be that suppressing does not suppress and in fact increases societal harm? Well that is what we learned about alcohol. But of course it works different with other drugs. /snark

Evidently the old saw about drugs making people stupid is in fact true.

It is amazing that so many can't even see what their noses are rubbed in every day. I wonder where you get that kind of training?

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:53 pm

My new favorite Rapper.

Ice-T Defends the Second Amendment

I’ve confessed before that I am hopelessly uninformed about popular culture, so it’s no big surprise that I couldn’t identify a single song by Ice-T.

But since I’m a big supporters of the Second Amendment, I’ve decided he’s now my favorite singer (or would he be called a rapper?) after seeing him defend the right to bear arms on British TV.

Watch Video at the link.

http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/20 ... amendment/