Just to revisit the original topic, wind farms, you do realize these are not going to be very useful on the Moon, Mars, and asteroids, right?
I had the rare treat of meeting the first Ligon to come to the Virginia Colony. He arrived circa 1640. I met him back around 2001 or so, giving a tour in Jamestown.
If you go back and check the details of the years between 1607 and 1640, you get a morbid picture of the difficulties. People died left and right. Most new arrivals were dead within a couple of years. That they were willing to take the risk is an indication of just how bad it was for them back in England, which was essentially in a religious civil war not entirely unlike what has been going in in Iraq. They were also victims of the most blatant false advertising.
But Colonel Ligon got out of it with about 1600 acres and a legacy.
I expect the space colonists will do much better. They will be smarter and better prepared. Surely they can endure some tin can living for a few years.
Tom Ligon wrote:Just to revisit the original topic, wind farms, you do realize these are not going to be very useful on the Moon, Mars, and asteroids, right?
Ridiculous! The solar wind blows 24/7 out in space!
Tom Ligon wrote:Just to revisit the original topic, wind farms, you do realize these are not going to be very useful on the Moon, Mars, and asteroids, right?
I had the rare treat of meeting the first Ligon to come to the Virginia Colony. He arrived circa 1640. I met him back around 2001 or so, giving a tour in Jamestown.
If you go back and check the details of the years between 1607 and 1640, you get a morbid picture of the difficulties. People died left and right. Most new arrivals were dead within a couple of years. That they were willing to take the risk is an indication of just how bad it was for them back in England, which was essentially in a religious civil war not entirely unlike what has been going in in Iraq. They were also victims of the most blatant false advertising.
But Colonel Ligon got out of it with about 1600 acres and a legacy.
I expect the space colonists will do much better. They will be smarter and better prepared. Surely they can endure some tin can living for a few years.
Actually, if you poke around online, you find that a very considerable number of the people who came from Europe to North America did not make the journey voluntarily. A considerable number were in fact kidnapped and brought over as slaves to work under the most wretched of conditions, and it wasn't just blacks, initially at least equal numbers of whites came over involutarily, and that's without taking the criminal element into consideration.
1. Prospective indentured servants shall be technically qualified and well-educated, in good health physically and mentally.
2. Work is expected 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, with no vacation. Expect to have your ass worked off. Sick leave is permitted on consent of the company doctor. Medical care is provided. Training time is includes as work time.
3. Term of indenture is 7 Earth years.
4. On completion of the term of indenture, servants judged as having served satisfactorily will be provided with an option of continuing as paid employees. Bums will be sent back to Earth by the most economical option available, which may include suspended animation.
5. Beatings of knaves, scoundrels, and slackers is permitted only in egregious cases, following a disciplinary hearing, and shall not result in permanant injury deleterious to their ability to work.
6. The food is generally crappy, but nutritious. It does not matter if you are servant or free, everyone eats the same damned crap. One line of servitude is to fix this.
Tom Ligon wrote:1. Prospective indentured servants shall be technically qualified and well-educated, in good health physically and mentally.
2. Work is expected 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, with no vacation. Expect to have your ass worked off. Sick leave is permitted on consent of the company doctor. Medical care is provided. Training time is includes as work time.
3. Term of indenture is 7 Earth years.
4. On completion of the term of indenture, servants judged as having served satisfactorily will be provided with an option of continuing as paid employees. Bums will be sent back to Earth by the most economical option available, which may include suspended animation.
5. Beatings of knaves, scoundrels, and slackers is permitted only in egregious cases, following a disciplinary hearing, and shall not result in permanant injury deleterious to their ability to work.
6. The food is generally crappy, but nutritious. It does not matter if you are servant or free, everyone eats the same damned crap. One line of servitude is to fix this.
Would think Shanghaiing would be more likely: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_of_Empire
Given the level of skills/education needed would think it would preclude it being practical, however even in a mars colony sure there would be a certain percentage of donkey work type jobs, with the skilled people needed elsewhere.
There is one other possibility prison conscripts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moon_I ... h_Mistress
Musk seems to think 500K to mars and obviously eventually much less is possible, how much does it cost to keep someone in jail for 20+ years? I have heard figures of 40K/yr. 40K X 20yr =800K. So even if the Mars colony charged earth another 100K per prisoner(earth eating the transportation costs), earth is still saving north of 200K in lifetime charges for any prisoner who got a sentence of 20yr or longer. As shipping cost went down it would look even more attractive. Could picture even some country like China shipping to Mars some political dissident type prisoners who for whatever political reason they decide to exile rather that execute/imprison.
Tom Ligon wrote:
I had the rare treat of meeting the first Ligon to come to the Virginia Colony. He arrived circa 1640. I met him back around 2001 or so, giving a tour in Jamestown. http://www.tomligon.com/ThomasLygon.html
.
Actually I think you met Michael Bell, not Thomas Lygon(yes I know I am being a smartass sorry couldn't resist)
Nah, not conscripted prisoners and assorted nere-do-wells! I think we would send top scientists and engineers, workaholics who probably would think 12 hours a day, six days a week is a pretty easy schedule and would gladly work more because they love to do it. There would be some grunt work because of the lack of nere-do-wells, but most of it would be skilled high-tech.
I think you would have people waiting in line for this deal. It is not for everyone, but many Mars fans with no attachments on Earth would jump at a free ticket, room and board for seven years, and a chance to do what they always dreamed of.
williatw, I'll tell you, Bell does our common ancestor convincingly. Imagine touring a historic site and seeing a living history character introduce himself as an ancestor you know of. That was a delightful treat for both of us ... he smiled broadly when I presented my business card.
Tom Ligon wrote:1. Prospective indentured servants shall be technically qualified and well-educated, in good health physically and mentally.
2. Work is expected 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, with no vacation. Expect to have your ass worked off. Sick leave is permitted on consent of the company doctor. Medical care is provided. Training time is includes as work time.
3. Term of indenture is 7 Earth years.
4. On completion of the term of indenture, servants judged as having served satisfactorily will be provided with an option of continuing as paid employees. Bums will be sent back to Earth by the most economical option available, which may include suspended animation.
5. Beatings of knaves, scoundrels, and slackers is permitted only in egregious cases, following a disciplinary hearing, and shall not result in permanant injury deleterious to their ability to work.
6. The food is generally crappy, but nutritious. It does not matter if you are servant or free, everyone eats the same damned crap. One line of servitude is to fix this.
I am not sure why you need the indentured servitude angle. Just pay a big salary.
Here's a salary structure that would have got me to do it 20 years ago.
200K signing bonus.
Year 1 - 250K
Year 2 - 350K
Year 3 - 450K
Year 4 - 550K
Year 5 - 650K
Year 6 - 750K
Year 7 - 850K
My option to catch return flight at year 3. Company option to send me home on the same flight if I was unfit. Years 4,5,6,7 only paid if I stay for the second stint. It would probably be a good idea to give me some company stock options too that only vest if I do the whole seven years.
Tom Ligon wrote:Nah, not conscripted prisoners and assorted nere-do-wells! I think we would send top scientists and engineers, workaholics who probably would think 12 hours a day, six days a week is a pretty easy schedule and would gladly work more because they love to do it. There would be some grunt work because of the lack of nere-do-wells, but most of it would be skilled high-tech.
Yes but what happens when the growing mars colony starts doing heavy construction/mining other types of labor intensive endeavors to expand the colony? When they are building roads, tunnels, 12hours days of hard but monotonous work. Not really suitable for genius IQ type well educated scientists/engineers. Mars would be paid by earth to accept the prisoners not have to pay to import them.
