10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

[Skipjack]

Totally siding with ladajo here. Rossi has been contradicting himself over and over again and it has been very clear that he did that.

[ladajo]

Whatever you smoke, don't tell anyone. You might get in trouble.

Rossi has stated that his 1 MW reactors was delivered to a military customer. You don’t choose to believe him. It logically follows that he would setup his company in close proximity to that customer.

Your agenda seems to have discouraged the use of logic in your thinking. Why are you so hostile to Rossi?

There are MANY venders of LENR power systems preparing to enter the market. Why are you fixated on disparaging Rossi when these other people should get your equal scurrilous attention?

I look forward to your reaction when the results from the various evaluators of the DGT reactors are released. Since DGT derived their reactor from Rossi, then a good evaluation of the DGT reactor reflects well on Rossi.

Why do you believe him?

Whatever Rossi may or may not have with Ecat, he is a liar.

If you read Rossi's quotes over the last year and a half, you will see that he has claimed 1MW delivery to a number of customers, a number of times. All later turned out to be no true. The current 1MW (which he has stated is the first) is currently more than still on the same bit of concrete it was in October in Italy. His own words.

So how can it be in Italy, but be in Florida? And how can it be in Florida, if it was claimed at the beginning of March that there are no Ecats in the US?
And, also, that before any Ecats come the the US he would seek the proper certifications and licensing? But yet just the other day, he says he has finally filled out paperwork with UL. Although he previously claimed UL certs over a year ago...

Can you say, "inconsistent"?

[tomclarke]

Rossi has stated that his 1 MW reactors was delivered to a military customer. You don’t choose to believe him.

Axil, the 1MW reactor was just recently spotted in a video sitting in the same place it was 6 months ago. Rossi said it didn't ship and won't for another couple months because of changes requested by the customer.

You Rossi haters know more about Rossi’s business than the most fanatic Rossi fan; what is the motivation?

Could it be that you’re a crew of ex-Navy nuclear reactor jocks who hate to see that old fission horse die?

When you see somone so obviously either a liar or extreme BSer, and you find people worshipping his lies, it is difficult not to comment. Also it is fun to identify the obvious untruths, and wonder when this will all catch up with him. Like watching a bad magician, wondering when the audience will realise.

[Axil]

FYI

Miley Trying to Commercialize his Cold Fusion Process
Published April 15, 2012

http://coldfusion3.com/blog/miley-tryin ... on-process

[Axil]

Axil, the 1MW reactor was just recently spotted in a video sitting in the same place it was 6 months ago. Rossi said it didn't ship and won't for another couple months because of changes requested by the customer.

You Rossi haters know more about Rossi’s business than the most fanatic Rossi fan; what is the motivation?

Could it be that you’re a crew of ex-Navy nuclear reactor jocks who hate to see that old fission horse die?

When you see somone so obviously either a liar or extreme BSer, and you find people worshipping his lies, it is difficult not to comment. Also it is fun to identify the obvious untruths, and wonder when this will all catch up with him. Like watching a bad magician, wondering when the audience will realise.

History can be extremely forgiving if you are a genius. So much so, that most people seem to have forgotten that the following five geniuses were massive bad guys when they were alive and kicking. Petty fights, driving people to suicide, and even electrocuting an elephant – you don’t need to be a nice guy to advance the human condition.


1. Thomas Edison
2. Nikola Tesla
3. Ludwig van Beethoven
4. Robert Hooke
5. Isaac Newton

[ScottL]

You Rossi haters know more about Rossi’s business than the most fanatic Rossi fan; what is the motivation?

Could it be that you’re a crew of ex-Navy nuclear reactor jocks who hate to see that old fission horse die?

When you see somone so obviously either a liar or extreme BSer, and you find people worshipping his lies, it is difficult not to comment. Also it is fun to identify the obvious untruths, and wonder when this will all catch up with him. Like watching a bad magician, wondering when the audience will realise.

History can be extremely forgiving if you are a genius. So much so, that most people seem to have forgotten that the following five geniuses were massive bad guys when they were alive and kicking. Petty fights, driving people to suicide, and even electrocuting an elephant – you don’t need to be a nice guy to advance the human condition.


1. Thomas Edison
2. Nikola Tesla
3. Ludwig van Beethoven
4. Robert Hooke
5. Isaac Newton

Anecdotal at best, not evidence of your statement at all. How about Philo Farnsworth, Albert Einstein, Madame Curie, Louie Pasteur? See, anecdotal. Doesn't prove your point at all.

Rossi has been proven to lie repeatedly. Whether this makes him a liar is subjective, but his trend is not promising.

[Axil]

When you see somone so obviously either a liar or extreme BSer, and you find people worshipping his lies, it is difficult not to comment. Also it is fun to identify the obvious untruths, and wonder when this will all catch up with him. Like watching a bad magician, wondering when the audience will realise.

History can be extremely forgiving if you are a genius. So much so, that most people seem to have forgotten that the following five geniuses were massive bad guys when they were alive and kicking. Petty fights, driving people to suicide, and even electrocuting an elephant – you don’t need to be a nice guy to advance the human condition.


1. Thomas Edison
2. Nikola Tesla
3. Ludwig van Beethoven
4. Robert Hooke
5. Isaac Newton

Anecdotal at best, not evidence of your statement at all. How about Philo Farnsworth, Albert Einstein, Madame Curie, Louie Pasteur? See, anecdotal. Doesn't prove your point at all.

Rossi has been proven to lie repeatedly. Whether this makes him a liar is subjective, but his trend is not promising.

Who is perfect? Einstein was an adulterer. So What?

Rossi is an American patriot. He wants his invention to advance the American agenda. Being American patriots yourselves, you should cut this guy some slack.

[KitemanSA]

Must be a mistranslation. He probably meant to say "will be manufacturing"... This is a year before his declaration to US authorities that he has never manufactured reactors in the US.

At this point, I would have to call YOU the liar. At least by my recollection he said all reactor work is "currently" in Europe. If I am mistaken, please show me where he stated "never" to the FL BRC(?).

Besides which, they were Florida authorities, no?

[KitemanSA]

Ladajo,
It is interesting. I did in fact miss your several pages of "direct quotes". I generally jump back to the prior page when I renew a session. Seems there was a lot of posts between your pages of quotes and the last sheet when I renewed my session. The posts picked up directly where I had left off so I didn't realize it was several pages later.

Thank you for the quotes.

Comments to come below.

Andrea Rossi
June 28th, 2011 at 5:34 PM

Dear Bill Conley:
The poles of this tech will be:
USA, Greece and Sweden.
I reside in the USA and The 1 MW plant for Greece is manufactured in the USA. I confirm that a very important plant of 1 MW will be ready to be put in operation within the year in the USA: our men are working on the authorizations.
USA,. Sweden Greece are the sole Countries where I am making real work and where I will mke real work for the next 2 years, apart Bologna (Italy), where we made a Research and development contract with the University.
Thank you ,
Warm Regards,
A.R.

http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.c ... ment-49338

So where is the "Research and Development Contract" with UoB. Oh...it NEVER HAPPENED...Ooops, another lie...

Jeez, dude. Contracts fall thru for any number of reasons. Even UoB agreed he had a contract. But he never paid the fee so no research work was done, as a UoB project. But aren't two of his three main compatriots professors at the UoB? Can you say "shorthand"? Please note that most of his statements about working with the UoB were made early on. Then UoB said, effectively "we aren't working with him" (we as the university). That seems to be when the "contract" talk started.

Yeah, I know, you'll next say that subsequent to this he made statements about "working with the UoB". To me that sounded like it could have been contract negotiations. To a businessman, that is work. To a university, perhaps that is just overhead.

[KitemanSA]

Andrea Rossi
April 16th, 2011 at 2:27 PM

Dear “HRG”:
You are perfectly right, I agree totally with your comment, as for concerns the incompatibility and the unacceptability of entities which work and get financing from Oil Companies, Nuclear Companies, Hot Fusion Research centers as “indipendent third parties”,as well as of competitors, who since years try to make useful LENR apparatuses and are not able to: they cannot present themselves or their consultants as “indipendent third parties”. This is why, after the tests we made with the University of Bologna and with Prof. Kullander and Prof Hanno from Sweden ( they are considered worldwide as scientists of the maximum level in the field) we will not make further tests. We will, of course, continue our R&D with the University of Bologna. We will give to the University of Uppsala and to the University of Stockolm our devices to allow them to use the same devices 24 hours per day, to get data regarding the energy production. We trust them, and we know they are really neutral, without binds with competitors of any kind. I personally knew them and I have in them total trust. The same is not for “indipendent parties” that have been proposed to me, regarding which I discovered they have got a bunch of millions to make research for the hot fusion (producing nothing so far), or “indipendent parties” made by consultants which are paid money by the shovels to sustain nuclear power plants, fossil fuels and the forth, or consultants of our competitors in the LENR field.
This is why we continue to repeat that the market, only the market will be the final judge: if our E-CATS WILL RESPECT THE GUARANTEES OF ENERGY PERFORMANCE AND SAFETY, WE WILL BE PAID. This is the sole validation that counts really, at the end.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
By the way: in our factories there are reactors in operation 24 hours per day, just to test their safety reliability.
Warm regards,
A.R.

http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.c ... ment-33347

Oh lets, see, more mythical R&D work and agreements with UoB. More Ecats functioning in the claimed multiple factories. Ohh,...more lies...

Have you been looking at the dates? You do realize you have been listing them in REVERSE chronological order, right? This posting is BEFORE the UoB corrected his terminology. "research with the UoB" should be understood to mean "research with two professors from the UoB". Not lies, shorthand. Shorthand that the UoB objected to, it seems. He may or may not have accepted their correction depending on his meaning of the subsequent statement regarding trips to Italy and working with the UoB. Note (IIRC) he said "working" with the UoB, not R&D with the UoB. This suggests to me contract negotiations.

It also sort of seems that the UoB's objection may have included some level of direction to said professors that they were not to be involved without paid contract. Hence the contract. But no payment and hence the appearant disapperance of the two professors from the story. I couldn't swear that they actually disappeard, that is an outside observation with little backing.

[KitemanSA]

Folks,
If you list "forward looking statements" in reverse chronological order, they can APPEAR to be lies. But really, they aren't necessarily so.

Ladajo,
You listed a bunch of statements in reverse chronological order and then made fairly nasty quips about them, seemingly suggesting that prior forward looking statements made lie of a subsequent statements. I am truly surprised at you.

[KitemanSA]

Totally siding with ladajo here. Rossi has been contradicting himself over and over again and it has been very clear that he did that.

People contradict themselves all the time when they talk of "plans" and "what finally happened". If you think that is evidence of dishonesty, well, you must have a truly disgusted view of mankind in general, cuz it happens to EVERYBODY!

[KitemanSA]

Well, as far as I can tell, Kite is purely baiting on this topic. I have given him three or so pages of direct Rossi quotes showing complete story reversals and changes on the fly. And, it seems that Kite can only try to word twist one.
I guess that means he has no argument with the rest.

Rossi is a multiple direct quoted liar.

I too hold out some hope that LENR is real. And I do not attach that to anything that Rossi has done, or does. Rossi is his own animal, and IMO doing more to hurt the LENR realm than help.

Story reversals happen when you are talking "plans". List the quotes in chronological order and show me where statements are factually contradictory. Please allow for the fact that plans change, "contract speak" is not always the same as common usage, and the fact the folks speak in shorthand. After all, y'all keep using shorthand while telling me I am being AR for suggesting that y'all should identify when you are speaking about your opinions ("I think" is redundant and unnecessary said someone).

You seem to have "decided" that he is a liar and now you went looking for sopport for your decision. Seems you have to look at reverse time to get that support. You examples are NOT convincing.

[ladajo]

Kite,
You can do better than that.
I listed the quotes. You sort them if you wish.

Rossi lied a number of times.

In the quotes, you like to re-write meanings. I would buy it to some degree if it was something he said just once. But when Rossi says things several times, and if deffernt context, but with clear intent, it can not be argued.

At this point, if you can not do the simple exercise of taking a claim from over a year ago, and walk the dog forward, see how he changes the story, I can not help you understand.

Pick for instance the mythical 1MW units. Find the oldest quote, and then follow the threads through in the various forms of quotes, interviews, photos and videos.

It is clear that Rossi lies. it is not a temporal time warp on my part, nor is it simple misunderstanding of his meanings.

Walk the dog again on his relationship with UoB. He clearly claims that he is in deep with "UoB", not some moonlighting professors, doing research and development work. He does this a number of times, and keeps it up until someone bothers to ask UoB what the real story is. Then he moves on to another claimed association. And then again, and again.

It boggles my mind that you refuse to see the simple truth. Actions speak louder than words. And in Rossi's case, which you are floundering to defend, both his words and his actions repeatedly doom him.

Thanks for reviewing the facts. Sorry you can not see what they tell you.

I am done with your game. It is not fun. You refuse to do the work. I thought more of you.

I reviewed the facts, I did the legwork, I made a judgement based on my labors. Rossi is a liar. Rossi has also completely failed to date to show that his Ecat works.

[KitemanSA]

You will find many quotes from Rossi claiming factories and Ecats operating in the US.

You will also find quotes from Rossi stating there are no Ecats or Factories in the US.

I don't recall ever seeing a quote from Rossi saying he doesn't have reactors in the US. I see a quote from someone else who perports to be conveying information from Rossi, but no direct quotes as far as I can tell. Hear-say.

Side by side quotes please?

Actually, don't bother.

I find it interesting that y'all feel such a need to prove yourselves right in support of your rush to judgement.

I find it distressing that I have wasted this much time pointing out the obvious flaws in your "logic".

I don't really care, and I have better things to do with my time than continue to try to train you on the distinction between fact and opinion.

Have fun believing what you will about the man. I won't respond anymore on this sub-thread (except maybe with an occational tick tock. )

Tick tock.