10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

[Skipjack]

The tests will be conducted according to mutually agreed upon protocols, as stated in the press release. If you bothered to look at their website and the related forum posts, you would know that the test equipment will be provided by the independent experimenters

If that is so, then what is it that the pdf posted earlier describes? This looks like a set test protocol, or am I missunderstanding something?

[jratcliff63367]

I saw in this thread that some people took offense to my 'comparison' of Andrea Rossi to Nikola Tesla.

I wrote a clarification on what I meant on this.

Here is the link to the clarification: http://www.examiner.com/paranormal-in-s ... -you-crazy

Or, here is the content.

---------------------------------------------------
I have been getting some great feedback on the article I posted over the weekend 'Andrea Rossi : Sinner or Saint?'. However, some people have been a little bit confused about where the 'author' of the article (i.e. me) was coming from.

So, I want to take a brief moment to clarify my personal position in the hopse of clearing up any confusion on the matter. I also found a thread of discussion online where some people were taking offense that I had the audacity to compare Andrea Rossi to Nikola Tesla.

Before I start, let me state one thing up front. I am not accusing Andrea Rossi of fraud. I simply do not know one way or the other. Time will tell and we will see in the end.

I would like to begin by clarifying a couple of points. I tried to keep my article objective; I do not think that it is a pro-Rossi article, nor do I feel that it is an anti-Rossi article. Instead the article is about exploring the question of what if Rossi is telling the truth versus, what if Rossi is committing fraud?

Quite frankly, personally, I find Rossi to be a giant flake and I believe his past adventures in energy companies is almost proof that he is up to no good now. I think his song and dance around his supposed '1mw reactor' is extremely suspicious, if not just a pack of outright lies. The fact that he won't allow for any independent testing of his device smacks of fraud. I think it is most likely that Rossi is, in fact, a fraud and is probably running some kind of scam but, at this time, I have no way of knowing for sure.

However, if Andrea Rossi is conducting a fraud, I just can't figure out 'the angle'. If he's running a scam, how does he expect to come out ahead? Personally, I see no future for him other than sitting in jail in the end.

Regarding the comment about Tesla in the previous article, let me clarify what I meant.

I used Tesla as an example because Tesla introduced AC power which didn't just transform the energy infrastructure of the planet, it created it!

So, if Rossi's device is real, and he sells millions and millions of them, then I believe that development would indeed be on par with the impact of AC power on the world.

Moreover, Rossi is an entrepreneur, a flake, a character, an inventor, and a very strange bird.

For those of you who don't know, no matter how brilliant Tesla was, he too was an entrepreneur who engaged in some pretty wild 'free energy' projects (see WardenclyfeTower). He was a very, very, very, strange man who suffered from some forms of mental illness and was an extreme eccentric. He was also an inventor; he didn't just sit around and think up ideas, he built stuff.

It is for this range of parallels that I used the analogy.

All that said, honestly, I think most likely Rossi is a scam artist, I just can't figure out his angle yet and I have no way to prove it. And, that said, I sure hope that I'm wrong.

The thrust of the first article was to explore my realization that if, by some incredible chance, Rossi actually does what he claims he is going to do (sell millions of low cost LENR reactors), then my argument is that there could be no better way possible to (A) 'prove' it to the world and (B) keep the technology from being suppressed, shut-down, or locked up by powerful industries that would find this kind of disruptive technology a threat to their interests.

Another Tesla comparison is how the powers the be, at the time, made Tesla's life a living hell.

[D Tibbets]

Here is the link for some who actually is interested to run benchmarks:

They are defining the testing protocols. Why? If they are also providing the testing and measurement equipment, the test is worthless.

The tests will be conducted according to mutually agreed upon protocols, as stated in the press release. If you bothered to look at their website and the related forum posts, you would know that the test equipment will be provided by the independent experimenters.

Test equipment? Experimental protocols.? Certainly these are important, but they are also meaningless, if done internally. The claims need verification if you assume (believe) the claimes are not bogus. The device in all of it's incarnations is a black box. This needs to be tested by an independent lab. No patentable details need be reviled. Machinery, instruments, protocols all add up to nothing if the test is done internally, mostly because procedure is important, but collected data must be accurately (truthfully) recorded. You can make up any data you wish, and say, look I used the highly accepted instermens from Acme Scientific, so it must be true. I think Ross has already reviled his unreliability, either through ignorance, stupidity, or dishonesty. Only independent testing without Rossi, etel managing and presenting the data will have any value.

By the way, IF I can resolve a couple of issues, I have a fusion reactor design that will work nearly as well or better than the Pollywell. Any investors out there? I'll gladly take your money. Lets see, how does $1000 per share sound. If I offer 5 million shares ...

Dan Tibbets

[Betruger]

So, if Rossi's device is real, and he sells millions and millions of them, then I believe that development would indeed be on par with the impact of AC power on the world.

For my part, the "offense" at your writing was more off the cuff smack talk than genuine offense.

The wording in above quote is key: it is the device that's the star here. Not Rossi. Whereas Tesla's ingenuity and industriousness was the linchpin in his case, Rossi's got just serendipity and a firetruck load of smoke and mirrors.

Another Tesla comparison is how the powers the be, at the time, made Tesla's life a living hell.

Sure, I'll take most of what I've said back and probably others will too. In that respect. But so far Rossi has done little to give this scenario credibility. And again whereas Tesla was extraordinarily eccentric and only a little arguably a genius, Rossi just reeks of scam. To pick just one thing: his experimental ineptitude.

[parallel]

jratcliff63367,
I posted the link to your piece three pages back. I thought it was more balanced than your comments above.

The fact is, there is absolutely no proof that Rossi is trying to scam anyone, so I object to those without the patience to wait for more definitive results, who state positively that Rossi is a fraud, scam artist, has no degree, etc. etc.

I think those people, like Dave Barry's dog, have two brain cells and one them died. Yes, I include Betruger in that category.

[jratcliff63367]

There is no proof that Rossi is trying to scam anyone, but he does come off as extremely dishonest.

John

[ladajo]

John,
Welcome to parallel reality.

For the record I fully agree with your position.

Rossi has made great effor to convince folks he is full of it. However, until we get a real test, we will not know.

Welcome to Talk-polywell. A lively group indeed.

[jratcliff63367]

Thanks, it's a very entertaining story no doubt.

I just hope the cat, or let's say the e-cat, gets out the bag this year.

John

[ladajo]

Yes, Rossiworld is the best circus EVER!

In the mean time, I hope that you get a chance to poke around here about Polywell. To be fair, there have been some equally entertaining exchanges about it and viability.

And, if you are really bored, ask anyone how they feel about drug prohibition. That is sure to get some rounds flying.

[KitemanSA]

And, if you are really bored, ask anyone how they feel about drug prohibition. That is sure to get some rounds flying.

But NOT in this forum. Keep it in "General"!

[parallel]

jratcliff63367

but he does come off as extremely dishonest

.
He has never been convicted of anything except possibly tax evasion (the national sport of Italy) and has not taken investors money for the E-Cat.

Yet you write Rossi is extremely dishonest. Really? Why do you make that statement? Some references would be good.

Do you run out of words to describe politicians?

[GIThruster]

The fact he bought his degree from Kensington rather than earning one is pretty solid evidence he's a con artist.

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/01/ ... for-fraud/

[ScottL]

Dishonest Practices:

1. Tax evasion
2. False Degree
3. Lied about shipping 1MW plant to customer (repeatedly)
4. Clearly lied in Krivit video about Output (although possibly on purpose, regardless it's a lie)

Not saying he's a liar, but I wouldn't buy a car from him.

[Joseph Chikva]

IF the E-Cat works it will transform the world at least as much as Tesla did.

Once again:
IF grandmother would have penis she/he will grandfather.
At least one year you repeat the same "if".
It is easy to provide evidence of effect existence but they could not. Instead they have thought up the next fairy tale about secret customer. Not enough?

Well, what you said is apparently true, nobody will dispute such truisms why to say something so trivial. Once your assumptions are right the following conclusions are apparently correct...

The fact that you see no creditable evidences supporting the actuality of LENR does not necessarily prove that LENR effect does not exist; it just means that you do not see it - nothing more (good for you).

Your assumption: - "but they could not"

It is a relative observation - if you see no evidences means only that you see no evidences - nothing more.

Here is the link for some who actually is interested to run benchmarks:

http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/2 ... actors.pdf

My thinking is as trivial as: "It is difficult to find black cat in the dark room, especially if she is not there" (c) Did Confucius speak about e-cat?

[quixote]

1. Tax evasion

To be fair, he was acquitted of the dumping and tax fraud charges not once, but three times, and in three different venues. He seems to have only been fined for minor infractions involved in the way he obtained his permits. Of course, he was also jailed for 6 months prior to being acquitted. At least that's my interpretation of the "translation" offered by Google and Babelfish of the archived news article about him.

I wouldn't buy a car from him.

I might buy a car from him, but only if it was reasonably priced and I got to kick the tires a bit.