As a commenter on another thread noted: the moralist don't understand the difference between vice and crime. Vice is when the only person you are DIRECTLY harming is yourself. Crime is DIRECTLY harming another. (as Jefferson would say: picking my pocket or breaking my leg)From: http://classicalvalues.com/2011/12/disr ... innocence/
Traditionalists decry the social changes of the last several decades. And they fume that not everyone sees morality the same way they do. They wonder why so many have come to reject their values these past 40-50 years. They wonder why their religious proclamations fall on deaf ears. Yet it never occurs to these same traditionalists that their support for the WOD might be a factor in that alienation.
The drug laws serve as a modern day version of “The Scarlet Letter”, but instead of a large red “A” sewn to a person’s clothing, we give them a metaphorical large “D” in the form of their arrest record that follows them every time they apply for work, school, a loan, etc. Annually, hundreds of thousands of people find themselves saddled with that scarlet “D” and they begin paying the price almost immediately in some fashion or another. They know, intuitively or expressly, that they’ve done nothing truly criminal to warrant this moral approbation. They also know the cultural institutions that saw to it that they were burdened with the scarlet “D”. They think, correctly, that society has given them a raw deal.
With the passage of time, there are now tens of millions of people that are now subject to the scarlet “D”. They want little to do with a culture that mistreated them so badly. I can't say I blame them.
If I gave some one a raw deal, I wouldn’t expect that person to think very highly of me. Yet our drug warriors have seen to it that tens of millions of Americans have gotten a raw deal over the decades, yet they are shocked that the people that have gotten the short end of the stick don’t see them as moral heroes and no longer grovel at their moral proclamations.
If you make war on your neighbor, you shouldn’t be surprised if they don’t see you as a friend. Why should they?
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the Children of God (Matt. 5:9). Remember, drugs didn’t start the war on drugs. It was the so-called forces of morality that began the hostilities. It is incumbent upon them to end their immoral actions.
The Moralist Are Creating The Very Forces They Fear
The Moralist Are Creating The Very Forces They Fear
A comment I got at :
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
At a million arrest per year we now have on the order of 25 million enemies of civilization in America. The arrest rates were somewhat lower 40 years ago.
So they have trouble getting jobs and are denied welfare. That mainly leaves grey and black market activities.
And those souls have friends and relatives. So we might be up to 50 or 100 million enemies of civilization in our midst.
The moralists have CREATED the very forces they fear.
The moralists gravitate to the right and the pounded on to the left. Hilarious.
The leftists are winning on the issue. And if they win and the right acquiesces the right will get a new lease on life. Also hilarious.
So they have trouble getting jobs and are denied welfare. That mainly leaves grey and black market activities.
And those souls have friends and relatives. So we might be up to 50 or 100 million enemies of civilization in our midst.
The moralists have CREATED the very forces they fear.
The moralists gravitate to the right and the pounded on to the left. Hilarious.
The leftists are winning on the issue. And if they win and the right acquiesces the right will get a new lease on life. Also hilarious.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
25 Million represents a great deal of political clout if organized. If they insist on merely whining and don't do anything to change the system, the prohibition forces can use this as proof that drugs completely rob people of motivation and will power.MSimon wrote:At a million arrest per year we now have on the order of 25 million enemies of civilization in America. The arrest rates were somewhat lower 40 years ago.
So they have trouble getting jobs and are denied welfare. That mainly leaves grey and black market activities.
And those souls have friends and relatives. So we might be up to 50 or 100 million enemies of civilization in our midst.
The moralists have CREATED the very forces they fear.
The moralists gravitate to the right and the pounded on to the left. Hilarious.
The leftists are winning on the issue. And if they win and the right acquiesces the right will get a new lease on life. Also hilarious.
CHoff
Considering that they are mostly abused children the lack of motivation is understandable. Their relatives may have a different opinion.choff wrote:25 Million represents a great deal of political clout if organized. If they insist on merely whining and don't do anything to change the system, the prohibition forces can use this as proof that drugs completely rob people of motivation and will power.MSimon wrote:At a million arrest per year we now have on the order of 25 million enemies of civilization in America. The arrest rates were somewhat lower 40 years ago.
So they have trouble getting jobs and are denied welfare. That mainly leaves grey and black market activities.
And those souls have friends and relatives. So we might be up to 50 or 100 million enemies of civilization in our midst.
The moralists have CREATED the very forces they fear.
The moralists gravitate to the right and the pounded on to the left. Hilarious.
The leftists are winning on the issue. And if they win and the right acquiesces the right will get a new lease on life. Also hilarious.
In my family my brother was killed in a drug war cross fire. I know that changed at least 10 minds. Maybe more.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
Do you ever wonder why he didn't go for help? What can you do when every one is disgusted by your sickness and your medicine is against the law? And in fact very few are compassionate on the subject. I'm fortunate to have been severely abused. I understand. Before I got that understanding I was within minutes of suicide myself. Several times.ladajo wrote:In my family my older brother shot himself in the head with my brother-in-law the cop's gun over his wasted life due to drug abuse on their back porch with my sister in the kitchen.
At least ten minds are against drugs as a result.
We all have trauma. You like to think yours in the only there is.
If your brother shot himself it likely wasn't the drugs. It was pain he couldn't articulate.
My hope is to bring some more compassion into the world on the subject. We shall see.
When I was drinking I felt hopeless. I was an addict. No lower form of life on earth in America today. Very hard to live with yourself when everyone is disgusted by your habits.
Your brother was as much a victim of the Drug War as mine. Except he doesn't get counted.
You really ought to watch this video. If you can get over his lefty rant at the beginning he has some very useful things to say learned from the study of medicine and years dealing with addicts.
http://classicalvalues.com/2011/11/the- ... -in-drugs/
In any case the WoDs is moving the country left. It is a shame.
I'm thinking of voting Ron Paul in '12. The current crop of Rs disgusts me that much. We have a choice between a communist and a communist. I already voted for one of the communists once. That was enough. Under the circumstances I'm likely to vote libertarian.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
These 25 million are convicted FELONS, and with few exceptions, felons can't vote, at least in VA.choff wrote:25 Million represents a great deal of political clout if organized. If they insist on merely whining and don't do anything to change the system, the prohibition forces can use this as proof that drugs completely rob people of motivation and will power.
I'll have to give snaps to the elephants on that one though. Make a bunch of enemies, but take away their ability to retaliate politically. Such a deal!!
With all respect, it is one thing to be against drugs.ladajo wrote:In my family my older brother shot himself in the head with my brother-in-law the cop's gun over his wasted life due to drug abuse on their back porch with my sister in the kitchen.
At least ten minds are against drugs as a result.
It is completely different things to be for war on drugs.
I can agree with first, but not with second. War on drugs is pointless. In the end, it has not saved your older brother...
I don't have time at the moment to rebut all of your silliness, but I do have time to post a link to a man that understands the issue better than you do.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/12/ ... z1frVEbxrO
Of my ten welfare-dependent cousins, only one remarkably "made it." He worked his way through college and became very successful. The other nine never ventured off the government plantation, seduced as they were by the false promise of security. Consequently, they succumbed to alcohol and drug abuse and out-of-wedlock births. Four of my cousins' lifestyles caused them to suffer early deaths.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/12/ ... z1frVEbxrO
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
— Lord Melbourne —
It is very presumptuous of you to think you know what was going on with my brother and why.MSimon wrote:Do you ever wonder why he didn't go for help? What can you do when every one is disgusted by your sickness and your medicine is against the law? And in fact very few are compassionate on the subject. I'm fortunate to have been severely abused. I understand. Before I got that understanding I was within minutes of suicide myself. Several times.ladajo wrote:In my family my older brother shot himself in the head with my brother-in-law the cop's gun over his wasted life due to drug abuse on their back porch with my sister in the kitchen.
At least ten minds are against drugs as a result.
We all have trauma. You like to think yours in the only there is.
If your brother shot himself it likely wasn't the drugs. It was pain he couldn't articulate.
My hope is to bring some more compassion into the world on the subject. We shall see.
When I was drinking I felt hopeless. I was an addict. No lower form of life on earth in America today. Very hard to live with yourself when everyone is disgusted by your habits.
Your brother was as much a victim of the Drug War as mine. Except he doesn't get counted.
You really ought to watch this video. If you can get over his lefty rant at the beginning he has some very useful things to say learned from the study of medicine and years dealing with addicts.
http://classicalvalues.com/2011/11/the- ... -in-drugs/
In any case the WoDs is moving the country left. It is a shame.
I'm thinking of voting Ron Paul in '12. The current crop of Rs disgusts me that much. We have a choice between a communist and a communist. I already voted for one of the communists once. That was enough. Under the circumstances I'm likely to vote libertarian.
He was not abused or beaten by my father. None of us were. He was not cast out and ignored. None of us were. He did seek help. It did not work. His time in the army cemented his lessor prior habit of pot, into a hard habit of a highly addictive set of chemicals. Had he not had easy access to these, via his "buddies" he would not have gotten physically hooked. His efforts at rehab failed. He could not hold a job as he re-cycled any money he was able to earn between re-lapses into funding quickly and determinedly the relapses, and forewent taking care of his basic needs such as decent clothes, place to live, food etc.
In the end, he went over to my sister's house. He chatted with her over lunch, then siad he was going to sit on the back porch and clean one of my brother-in-law's (the cop) guns as he had done many times. They used to shoot together for fun at the range. About two minutes later his head was ruptured across her porch.
My younger sister almost went the same path. A former Olympic level gymnast, and straight "A" Advanced Placement Student in High School. She started with pot, and then went to George Washington in DC. At GW she was introduced to hard drugs by her "friends" there. Once they had her hooked, she became a regular buyer, as her "friends" were actually college dealers, selling to other students. How did they get customers? Samples. Needless to say, she failed in a messy and painful manner, and survived less than two years in DC as a student. Although she did tell my parents that she was taking classes, she actually was not, but they were still giving her money to "pay for school". She is now a career waitress with a string of chain restaurant employment and a never married single mother. She still does drugs, but as far as I can tell, has gotten herself of the hard stuff after several tries.
I am sure her life failure was based in the years of abuse and crappy life she did not have being raised in my family.
So, how did 'war on drugs' improved her situation?ladajo wrote: My younger sister almost went the same path. A former Olympic level gymnast, and straight "A" Advanced Placement Student in High School. She started with pot, and then went to George Washington in DC. At GW she was introduced to hard drugs by her "friends" there. Once they had her hooked, she became a regular buyer, as her "friends" were actually college dealers, selling to other students. How did they get customers? Samples. Needless to say, she failed in a messy and painful manner, and survived less than two years in DC as a student. Although she did tell my parents that she was taking classes, she actually was not, but they were still giving her money to "pay for school". She is now a career waitress with a string of chain restaurant employment and a never married single mother. She still does drugs, but as far as I can tell, has gotten herself of the hard stuff after several tries.
Nope, she never was arrested for drugs. Although she came close to ending up in court/jail a few times for her behaviours related to trying to support her habits and lifestyle.
I would say the WoD helped her in the sense that it has limited her access to the hard stuff. If she had easier access, she might well have gone the way of our older brother, although, I do not think it would have been by gun. Probably OD or over the rail.
Can you argue that WoD drove her to criminal acts in seeking out her fixes? Maybe. But I would say that is a red herring. The root issue is not the WoD, the root is the physical addiction created by the drugs. No matter the WoD or not, she would still have gotten hooked on coke. The only thing that would've been different was the sourcing of the drugs. In any event, even if it was "legal" and "controlled" like cigarettes and alcohol, folks that are seeking the "fix" will still resort to whatever means they need to get it. Be it bribing the Doctor for the script, or stealing it from a store or home.
Drive around in a city and see how many liquor stores don't have steel bars and grates. Have you ever noticed that cigarettes are also normally kept in a lockable container inside the locked and alarmed store?
The biggest thing that I see the WoD doing is that it is drawing out those with criminal intent. If there was no WoD, they would find some other mayhem to pursue. Once a dinq, always a dinq.
It is the same thing as making WoT away from the homeland. Yes, we are dangling our miltary and diplomats out there like a piece of meat and calling, "here kitty kitty, here kitty kitty". It works. It attracts the A-holes, and lets us deal with them somewhere that is not here.
The criminal element is there, and they will still be there without WoD. So then what?
I would say the WoD helped her in the sense that it has limited her access to the hard stuff. If she had easier access, she might well have gone the way of our older brother, although, I do not think it would have been by gun. Probably OD or over the rail.
Can you argue that WoD drove her to criminal acts in seeking out her fixes? Maybe. But I would say that is a red herring. The root issue is not the WoD, the root is the physical addiction created by the drugs. No matter the WoD or not, she would still have gotten hooked on coke. The only thing that would've been different was the sourcing of the drugs. In any event, even if it was "legal" and "controlled" like cigarettes and alcohol, folks that are seeking the "fix" will still resort to whatever means they need to get it. Be it bribing the Doctor for the script, or stealing it from a store or home.
Drive around in a city and see how many liquor stores don't have steel bars and grates. Have you ever noticed that cigarettes are also normally kept in a lockable container inside the locked and alarmed store?
The biggest thing that I see the WoD doing is that it is drawing out those with criminal intent. If there was no WoD, they would find some other mayhem to pursue. Once a dinq, always a dinq.
It is the same thing as making WoT away from the homeland. Yes, we are dangling our miltary and diplomats out there like a piece of meat and calling, "here kitty kitty, here kitty kitty". It works. It attracts the A-holes, and lets us deal with them somewhere that is not here.
The criminal element is there, and they will still be there without WoD. So then what?
Are you sure about it? It does not sound like that.ladajo wrote: I would say the WoD helped her in the sense that it has limited her access to the hard stuff.
You know, you can reverse this claim:The only thing that would've been different was the sourcing of the drugs. In any event, even if it was "legal" and "controlled" like cigarettes and alcohol, folks that are seeking the "fix" will still resort to whatever means they need to get it.
In any event, even if it is "illegal", folks that are seeking the "fix" will still resort to whatever means they need to get it.
So, do you think that it would really made any difference it it was "legal"?
If it would not be for collateral damage, I might agree with this. But it seems like this collateral damage also creates criminal intent...The biggest thing that I see the WoD doing is that it is drawing out those with criminal intent.