Good luck my friend, fly safe.stefanbanev wrote:
I'm a beginner in paragliding, love this fun... thanks for info. Anyway once LENR will become a reality in 10...20 years the increase by x100 of thermal energy per capita will provide a lot of lifting power ;o) Plus human population will skyrocket so only sky will be not too crowded...
Very bold statement. Lots of old guys with lots of experience around here.Most of the posters here appear to be computer jocks or at least lack field experience.
It seems too general, more specific measure for engineering beauty would be the ratio:Giorgio wrote:Le me add to that also the words of Leonardo da Vinci:ladajo wrote:Keep It Simple Stupid. Why can folks not remember this?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
I don't know what gives you that idea to talk like that about my competence, but I suggest you forward this to Rossi. They guy who tried to measure steam quality with an air humidity meter.parallel wrote: I have just seen your later post. What you do if you are trying to measure a small temperature difference is calibrate the thermocouples together in a liquid at near the desired temperature. And then check after the measurement to see if they have drifted. If you don't know something so elementary there is no point in further discussion.
I don't know where we do not understand each other. IIRC, there exists a boiling water reactor design with a secondary loop for the turbines. But that is not the point. I agree, if there is no heat sink, the reservoir will not lead to further condensation. The second loop IS the heat sink. In a heat excanger, the flows of primary and secondary loop are usually inverted, so before the water goes back to the reservoir, it is in thermal contact via the HEX with the inflow of the secondary - I suppose some 20C water. So there is a lot reserve.sparkyy0007 wrote: You are confusing the primary with that of a pressurized water reactor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressurized_water_reactor
No boiling occurs in this type of primary and no condenser is used.
Rossi has admitted steam will be used in the primary so the secondary loop in the following is applicable.
http://www.nucleartourist.com/type/pwr.htm
This loop must have a cooler or overheating of the reservoir will prevent further condensation.
It is not straightforward: only shutting down the heater might not do anything. Because the reactor would still produce a lot more heat than the heater. This is, although the heater seems to be sufficient to bring the water to boiling point. What does that tell you about the behaviour of the claimed energy catalyzer? I repeat the question that I posed to parallel (who chose to ignore it): What happens, if the pump fails? Maybe because of a power blackout (or the (unneccesary?) primary has a leakage, the HEX gets stuck...)?DancingFool wrote: As long as the unit is run with a relatiively low COP, emergency shutoff is fairly straightforward - you just shut off the heater. This assumes no complications from thermal inertia in the reactor (and I'm not at all certain that that's a reasonable assumption), but at least it makes superficial sense.
Running the unit as a standalone generator raises the obvious question of how you would turn it off, and how to avoid thermal runaway.
I wouldn't be too concerned with blanket insults directed at those not expressing a particular point of view.ladajo wrote:Very bold statement. Lots of old guys with lots of experience around here.Most of the posters here appear to be computer jocks or at least lack field experience.
Your passion in defending Rossi appears to be clouding your ability to critically reason.
In regard to pump heating, it may or may not be negligiable. That depends on the setup. It certainly does provide an integral function in some systems, especially solid water ones, to both heat and control pressure. In Rossi's case, where folks argue the impact of ambient temp surrounding the device, pump heating should also be considered as a source to account for to get RCH accuracy. I personally do not think RCH accuracy is required for his claims, but in any event, if you are going to consider all angles, that is one not yet discussed.
In regards to the comment on PWRs, there most certainly is boiling. It occurs in several places, the most important and largest of which is the pressurizer. How do you think pressure control is maintained?
And again, I stick to my point. Rossi could have ended all the debate drama a while back and be well on his way to fame and fortune. All he had(has) to do is take a smaller unit and heat a pot of water. It confunds me why he hasn't. You can argue it is not required of him to do so. I counter, that he instead goes for demos that consistently on achieve further debate due to lack of controls and over complication. For god's sake, why is he doing a two circuit test? That just introduces another layer of obfuscation where he can now argue a magnitude based on heat transfer efficiency calculational error. Having spent a few years doing efficiency calculations for operating nuclear plants, I say he is now establishing further method to obscure his numbers if he so chooses.
Keep It Simple Stupid. Why can folks not remember this?
If ANY steam is not condensed in the HEX, the primary loop temperature will increase without boundsbk78 wrote:I don't know where we do not understand each other. IIRC, there exists a boiling water reactor design with a secondary loop for the turbines. But that is not the point. I agree, if there is no heat sink, the reservoir will not lead to further condensation. The second loop IS the heat sink. In a heat excanger, the flows of primary and secondary loop are usually inverted, so before the water goes back to the reservoir, it is in thermal contact via the HEX with the inflow of the secondary - I suppose some 20C water. So there is a lot reserve.sparkyy0007 wrote: You are confusing the primary with that of a pressurized water reactor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressurized_water_reactor
No boiling occurs in this type of primary and no condenser is used.
Rossi has admitted steam will be used in the primary so the secondary loop in the following is applicable.
http://www.nucleartourist.com/type/pwr.htm
This loop must have a cooler or overheating of the reservoir will prevent further condensation.
In principle, you sense the overtemp, and vent hydrogen. In principle, I say. Rossi says that the hydrogen has to be under pressure for the reaction to proceed.bk78 wrote:It is not straightforward: only shutting down the heater might not do anything. Because the reactor would still produce a lot more heat than the heater. This is, although the heater seems to be sufficient to bring the water to boiling point. What does that tell you about the behaviour of the claimed energy catalyzer? I repeat the question that I posed to parallel (who chose to ignore it): What happens, if the pump fails? Maybe because of a power blackout (or the (unneccesary?) primary has a leakage, the HEX gets stuck...)?DancingFool wrote:]
As long as the unit is run with a relatiively low COP, emergency shutoff is fairly straightforward - you just shut off the heater. This assumes no complications from thermal inertia in the reactor (and I'm not at all certain that that's a reasonable assumption), but at least it makes superficial sense.
Running the unit as a standalone generator raises the obvious question of how you would turn it off, and how to avoid thermal runaway.
Matter of degree, I suppose. You'll note that I did express reservations about thermal lags.What ultimately cools the device, is the water from the pump, so I do not see why controlling with a heater makes the device any safer.
I was wondering too, how the temperature is measured, but in principle it could be done by measuring the resistance of the heater. I doubt this is the case here, because developing electronics to measure the resistance of an element that is actively used as a heater, with fluctuating input, is certainly more expensive, complicated and dangerous than using an additional thermoelement.
Heh. Yup.Of course, the easiest explaination is, that all we saw in previous demonstrations was an electric water boiler.
Lets wait and see.bk78 wrote:@sparkyy0007:
I agree, in principle. But even if the water in the secondary loop leaves the HEX as steam, the flow in the primary could still be cooled down to near secondary input levels, lets say 30C.
If it does not, and steam leaves the primary HEX, the reservoir will heat up - but in that case the heat produced could be lowered by reducing heater power, until it is in steady state again (and no more steam leaves the HEX). This would result in a more beneficial total heat output / electric input ratio. There is one drawback though: Shutting the reactor down takes longer (if it works as claimed and no other mechanisms are installed), because the whole primary has to be cooled down prior to shutdown.
