williatw wrote:I wouldn't be pushing him to a separate household, if he is over 18 he could stay provided he worked...if he could not find a job on his on, gov would find/make one for him.
Could you explain what you meant by "or he has to leave the residence"?
But If goverment found itself required to find something for these people to do to earn their money it would have a very powerful incentive to figure out ways to get private companies to higher them. Tax breaks, any company that gets government contracts, other incentives. The gov would probably end up doing a fair amount of arm-twisting to get companies to higher them. And I think that is the meat of why we don't do it that way...that would be like a type of affirmative action on steroids. We love complaining about the lazy sod on welfare that could find a job if only he wanted to, but like "Skipjack" described in his post there are ways you could make them work if you wanted to.
I disagree with the affirmative action angle. Government shoudn't create incentives for particular kinds of job, just create a good environment for job creation in general.
Skipjack is describing the situation in Germany, but I don't think his description is particularly accurate – though as an observer from a distance don't take my word as authoritative, either. A lot of long-term unemployed aren't given any job at all (because there aren't that many), and those extremely low-paying jobs specifically created for the unemployed are heavily subsidized to the point of filling the employer's pockets at the cost of the rest of society.
I don't think "making them work" is a worthwhile goal. To give something back you also need to be productive.
No, it is the situation in Austria and my description is very accurate. I know people that were in the system.
We do have subsidized government jobs here, but they are rarely given to people on wellfare, but rather to people with connections (well paid for little work).
The long term unemployed are just sent to apply for jobs and they have to bring proof that they were there and applied for them. These are jobs at private companies mostly.
They dont evict kids here. That would be stupid and counter productive, besides the government should IMHO not have the power to throw people out of their homes. That kid that you want to throw out of its home can go to college here and become someone that will pay a lot of taxes...
MSimon wrote:I get paid for doing nothing. I believe I do it very well.
Yeah but are you paid by the tax payers for doing nothing? My whole point is that we are paying people for doing nothing...act like we are shocked that there are people who seemed "satisfied" with that, and behave as if we are powerless to do anything about it. The answer of course is to make them work for their supper so to speak. We have 100's of billions of dollars of decaying infrastructure, and 10's of millions of welfare/food stamp/unemployed people. Sounds like a match made in heaven(or maybe shotgun wedding).
The only real answer is to work out technology to make everyone self-sustainable enough. Human nature is such that politics will always be corrupt, and there will always be dead beats ballasting everyone else.
There's no salvation from politics. It's nothing more than crowd control.
Betruger wrote:The only real answer is to work out technology to make everyone self-sustainable enough. Human nature is such that politics will always be corrupt, and there will always be dead beats ballasting everyone else.
There's no salvation from politics. It's nothing more than crowd control.
Can I quote you on that? If not I will have to steal it.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
We have 100's of billions of dollars of decaying infrastructure, and 10's of millions of welfare/food stamp/unemployed people. Sounds like a match made in heaven(or maybe shotgun wedding).
And if they are not even qualified to pull weeds?
Everyone has a plan for utopia. Me to. Trouble is - as bad as things seem, the corrective is often worse.
BTW would the world have been better off if I was pulling weeds vs promoting Polywell?
Should I be shoveling ditches vs working to end the Drug War?
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
We have 100's of billions of dollars of decaying infrastructure, and 10's of millions of welfare/food stamp/unemployed people. Sounds like a match made in heaven(or maybe shotgun wedding).
And if they are not even qualified to pull weeds?
Everyone has a plan for utopia. Me to. Trouble is - as bad as things seem, the corrective is often worse.
BTW would the world have been better off if I was pulling weeds vs promoting Polywell?
Should I be shoveling ditches vs working to end the Drug War?
I would think that anyone smart enough to promote/give a rip about polywell, and clever enough that they can see the war on drugs is a failure could no doubt figure out how to griff the system to keep receiving a welfare check(assuming you are on public assistance).
At least that way I would be selecting for people clever enough to successfully cheat. A Charles Ponzi or Harry Mudd http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Harry_Mudd were at least competent(or entertaining) in some fashion.
MSimon wrote:I'm actually on social security. There is a medical problem in the family (chronic with acute episodes) that keeps me at home.
I have had plans to get something going at home but with zero capital that is difficult. I'm working on plan 11b now.
Sorry about your family issues..although I did not state it earlier, I meant people who are able-bodied able to work would be required to work to receive government assistance. A person on disability or the means of care/support for someone on disability would be a different case.
Betruger wrote:The only real answer is to work out technology to make everyone self-sustainable enough.
Developing the technology is not sufficient, though. You also need everyone to have free access to it, as well as a minimum amount of land and resources per person.
Betruger wrote:The only real answer is to work out technology to make everyone self-sustainable enough. Human nature is such that politics will always be corrupt, and there will always be dead beats ballasting everyone else.
There's no salvation from politics. It's nothing more than crowd control.
Can I quote you on that? If not I will have to steal it.
Steal it. I'd be honored.
Teahive wrote:
Betruger wrote:The only real answer is to work out technology to make everyone self-sustainable enough.
Developing the technology is not sufficient, though. You also need everyone to have free access to it, as well as a minimum amount of land and resources per person.
Resources is doable by recycling/efficiency IE technology.
Free access I don't know about - e.g. does it need to be free if standards of living are raised so much higher thanks to so much better techs of all kinds? And then you have the demographics: people aren't going to pass up on voting themselves "free" (or cheap enough in practice) access to these means of living the good life.
In very extreme cases you end up with demographics probably having no restraint whatsoever, e.g. if life extension therapies existed that enabled people to periodically remove aging damage, indefinitely, then I reckon you can bet your pants it'll get massively "voted in" as something everyone "must" have access to "by principle"; IE with no real concern given to the economics.. A lot like so many govt programs nowadays.
We have 100's of billions of dollars of decaying infrastructure, and 10's of millions of welfare/food stamp/unemployed people. Sounds like a match made in heaven(or maybe shotgun wedding).
And if they are not even qualified to pull weeds?
Everyone has a plan for utopia. Me to. Trouble is - as bad as things seem, the corrective is often worse.
BTW would the world have been better off if I was pulling weeds vs promoting Polywell?
Should I be shoveling ditches vs working to end the Drug War?
"And he gave it for his opinion, that whosoever could make two ears of corn or two blades of grass to grow upon a spot of ground where only one grew before, would deserve better of mankind, and do more essential service to his country, than the whole race of politicians put together."
-Jonathan Swift-
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
I'd be honored.