10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

parallel · Post by **parallel** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:19 pm

ladajo,

I recognize that my reply is an exercise in futility. The points have already been made over and over again.

1. Rossi developed a method of making oil from waste. The government changed the law to make what he was doing illegal. I see someone has started to do the same thing here recently.
2. He didn't specify how the experiments were set up. He doesn't have to provide proof to you or anyone else. His customer will check it out and if it meets specifications, pay him for it. What is so difficult to understand?

What I object to are those that accuse him of lying, being a fraud, con man, technical illiterate, etc. etc. with no proof. You may claim you don't find the demos convincing and that is fair enough. To draw the other conclusions is not. It largely hinges on whether you believe Rossi, Forcardi and Levi. I find it ludicrous to think they would throw away the rest of their lives by making false claims without even the possibility of an ill-gotten reward. I don't think the critics have the evidence to convict Rossi of fraud and yet not having evidence of this you all still go on and on about how important evidence is before reaching a conclusion.

Others have offered stupid unsolicited advice ranging on how to run his business to damning him for not getting patents - that are impossible to get here. If they are so clever and LENR is possible, why have they failed to even try themselves?

I don't know why the critics here feel they have to be so insulting and sprinkle their comments with ad hominems. It makes this blog read like a scandal rag in the supermarket. Shame on you.

As I've written many times, I don't know if the E-Cat works but am now leaning towards thinking it will as more evidence surfaces. I note some of the most vocal critics have gone strangely silent as the definitive test date nears.

If you think academics in the ivory towers are all ethical and open minded, follow the link. http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/p ... report.pdf

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:40 pm

Good luck, Mr. Parallel.
It would be good to have such reliable friend like you. As the single rational thought that I have caught from your long text is the following:

You may claim you don't find the demos convincing and that is fair enough.

The rest all is love, trust and speculation with no facts. To be short - irrational.

ScottL · Post by **ScottL** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:47 pm

Parallel, correct me if I"m wrong, but his waste to oil venture wasn't shut down due to a new law, but because he was improperly disposing of toxic waste after said process (20% converted to fuel, 80% toxic and containing heavy metals/chemicals). That was my interpretation of the articles on the subject, but find no mention of it in Rossi's account. If the law for environmental safety kicked in after he started his business, I don't see why he couldn't file for permits to house such materials and dispose of said materials properly, but even his article does not mention attempting to do so.

parallel · Post by **parallel** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:17 pm

ScottL
See item #7 here http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/RossiEC ... tory.shtml

ScottL · Post by **ScottL** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:21 pm

Do we have any articles (news or other) to confirm his side of the story? Most of the articles we have access too don't really go along with his written testimony, so that's why I ask.

parallel · Post by **parallel** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:27 pm

ScottL,
I'm sure there are two sides to the story, but it is clear that the problem originated with the government legislation naming his raw material toxic waste.
I have seen other sources but don't consider it worth my time to dig them up. It is past history, but history not as one sided as you made it out to be.

From the time of your post it doesn't look like you read the piece I linked.

Betruger · Post by **Betruger** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:29 pm

No credibility.
Where's the pudding? Hidden in Rossi's black box. Till then he has no credibility, neither do his "acolytes", and overall this whole affair is a waste of time.

parallel · Post by **parallel** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:34 pm

Betruger wrote:No credibility.
Where's the pudding? Hidden in Rossi's black box. Till then he has no credibility, neither do his "acolytes", and overall this whole affair is a waste of time.

That strikes me as a really dumb thing to write.
He can't get a patent. Are you really suggesting he should just give it away?
If he has no credibility yours must be a minus number.

ScottL · Post by **ScottL** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:37 pm

parallel wrote:ScottL,
I'm sure there are two sides to the story, but it is clear that the problem originated with the government legislation naming his raw material toxic waste.
I have seen other sources but don't consider it worth my time to dig them up. It is past history, but history not as one sided as you made it out to be.

From the time of your post it doesn't look like you read the piece I linked.

Paralle, that would be where you're wrong. I did read the article you linked, from top to bottom. It never mentions the contents of said waste or what law was violated. It also makes no mention of pursuing said permits. This is exactly why I'm asking as you profess to have an inside knowledge of the events.

As for the application of past events to present, I think they apply completely as it testifies to the character of Rossi. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't trust a convicted con-man with your money/information/etc. and that is what we're determining with Rossi. Can he be trusted at his word? We have to be able to judge his character on trends. So to put it shortly, if we can clear him of fraud and other scam like behaviors, we can at least (with reasonable trust) believe that he is not committing a fraud now.

ScottL · Post by **ScottL** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:40 pm

parallel wrote:
Betruger wrote:No credibility.
Where's the pudding? Hidden in Rossi's black box. Till then he has no credibility, neither do his "acolytes", and overall this whole affair is a waste of time.
That strikes me as a really dumb thing to write.
He can't get a patent. Are you really suggesting he should just give it away?
If he has no credibility yours must be a minus number.

He has a patent on the device and I'm pretty sure he can register rights to the secret sauce much like any other chemical company. Of course he wouldn't be requesting a "cold fusion" patent, but he would secure his ownership of said property. Yes this would leak the secret, but by then he knows he owns it. A lot of hullabaloo for 2 fairly straight forward patents.

parallel · Post by **parallel** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:46 pm

Scottl.
From memory, the waste was things like old tires and plastic material. Having acquired mountains of the stuff it was financially impossible to fix the problem - to even transport the stuff.

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't trust a convicted con-man with your money/information/etc. and that is what we're determining with Rossi.

There you go again. Guilty until proved innocent.

ScottL · Post by **ScottL** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:51 pm

parallel wrote:Scottl.
From memory, the waste was things like old tires and plastic material. Having acquired mountains of the stuff it was financially impossible to fix the problem - to even transport the stuff.
I'm pretty sure you wouldn't trust a convicted con-man with your money/information/etc. and that is what we're determining with Rossi.
There you go again. Guilty until proved innocent.

So financially his service wasn't feasible unless he was allowed to leave old tires, plastics, and other waste pile up?

As for your quote, I'm not saying he's guilty, I'm trying to clear him of guilt by means of evidence and asking pointed questions. If you don't know the answers, that is fine, please admit so and I'll search elsewhere. I don't understand why you're so defensive about a person you don't know.

parallel · Post by **parallel** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:58 pm

ScottL,
Your comment about patents puts you in the same category as Betruger.
I see no point in further discussion.

Rick Meisinger · Post by **Rick Meisinger** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:23 pm

Skeptics;

There has been many on this blog as well as other blogs that are demanding that Andrea Rossi provide accurate scientific testing validating the E-cat. He has been very consistent over the last couple of years stating that his plan for validation is to sell working units to customers and to do this after a 1MW power plant has been tested. Given the history of Cold fusion, current mindsets and turning upside down a 2 trillion/year industry; I think he has decided on a reasonable path.

Remember that the Wright Brothers were not believed by many in the press or scientific community even though they had video and eye witnesses reports. A solid scientific test that validates the E-cat is no guarantee that this will convince many of the skeptics. Many will claim that the data was manipulated or find some kind of fault with the test. Some will be paid to shoot holes in the data and create doubts and have political or financial reasons to oppose it.

Rossi has never said that he would not supply scientific validation, it was more the timing of when he would provide these tests. He believes that incorporation into the marketplace is the best evidence for acceptance of these units. The scientific tests at the end of October are more for the customers than the scientific community. I think Rossi deserves to roll out his invention that he has labored on for years and used his own finances to produce, in any manner that he desires. We should all be patient to wait for the test data that will be forthcoming at the end of October. The marketplace will be the ultimate validation of the E-cat.

Betruger · Post by **Betruger** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:02 pm

parallel wrote:
Betruger wrote:No credibility.
Where's the pudding? Hidden in Rossi's black box. Till then he has no credibility, neither do his "acolytes", and overall this whole affair is a waste of time.
That strikes me as a really dumb thing to write.
He can't get a patent. Are you really suggesting he should just give it away?
If he has no credibility yours must be a minus number.

No credibility, it doesn't matter how absurd it is. We don't see what's inside his black box.

And nothing else matters.

parallel wrote:ScottL,
Your comment about patents puts you in the same category as Betruger.
I see no point in further discussion.

There hasn't been for a long time now, and won't be till we see inside that damned black box of Rossi's.

Rick Meisinger wrote: Given the history of Cold fusion, current mindsets and turning upside down a 2 trillion/year industry; I think he has decided on a reasonable path.

Remember that the Wright Brothers

Rossi's got all the benefit of the doubt he deserves at this point. He has people's attention with his mysterious black box. That's no more or less than it deserves... And if it turns out to be vaporware, he will deserve some serious penalty for swindling so much of the world's attention in vain.