How to Fix Congress

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:14 pm

But I'm with you. We need to wait forty or fifty years to see if the results last. After all the addicts might go back to the black market once they get tired of getting their supplies legally. That makes perfect sense.

Besides the cartels need the money. As do the police, judges, jailers, lawyers, etc. There is big money all around for spreading illegal drug use.

I'm going to have to ask this of every prohibition supporter these days: what is your cut? Why support a program that spreads drug use?

From: http://classicalvalues.com/2011/09/the- ... appetites/

“We have got to fix this problem, or else it’s going to get a lot worse for us here at home,” explained Terry Nelson, whose three-decades in law enforcement saw him serving the U.S. Border Patrol, the Department of Homeland Security and the U.S. Customs Service. “We talk a lot about the 40,000 people who’ve died in the last five years in Mexico’s drug war, but we don’t talk a lot about Central and South America. The drug deaths down there per 100,000 are just as great as Mexico. Guatemala, El Salvador … These countries are just wiped out by drug cartels, and it’s not even in the news.”

Just last week, people on both sides of the border were shocked when authorities discovered a chilling scene where two bodies were hanging from a bridge, mutilated beyond recognition, next to a handwritten poster warning to avoid publishing about the cartels on social media or blogs. The situation has become so extreme that today more Mexican youths die from murder than vehicle accidents.

I must say you are in a really good position re: the cartels. They will never be gunning for you. Me? I expect I'm on the target list. Molon labe.

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:15 pm

MSimon wrote:The Swiss voted for heroin clinics twice. The second time by a greater margin.

But you know how stupid the Swiss are.

I haven't been terribly impressed by the Swiss lately, or for that matter ANY European country. They are doing what we are doing wrong a lot earlier and a lot faster.

MSimon wrote: Conspiracy theory? Your ignorance is again showing. Pity.

From http://www.runcornandwidnesweeklynews.c ... -27086372/

Dr Marks – now the clinical director of psychiatry at Gisborne Hospital in New Zealand, told the Weekly News: “The clinic gained the attention of Chief Inspector Bing Spear of the Home Office Drugs Branch in the mid-1980s and he became an enthusiastic supporter.

“From that beginning, the harm reduction policy was formulated and became an NHS model of good practice.

“Similar clinics were rolled out throughout the country and there was a lot of foreign interest.

“Switzerland and Germany modelled their services explicitly on it and eventually there came American attention.”

It was with the visit of US current affairs programme 60 Minutes in 1990 that America’s Republican administration became aware of the little Widnes clinic, and – Dr Marks alleges – then put pressure on the British Government to close it down for ideological reasons.

He said: “After it aired I got a sudden phone call from Bing who said: ‘Why didn’t you let us know about 60 Minutes?’.

“I replied honestly that I’d forgotten all about them among the plethora of other visitors, had no idea that their report had been broadcast nor that the Home Office would be interested in TV programmes about clinics.

“Bing replied ‘That’s a pity. We’re getting real heat from our embassy in Washington and Maggie’s got her knickers in a twist over the whole issue’.

“In short order the Halton Health District was dissolved, Bing Spear had resigned and was replaced by a man called Alan MacFarlane – who later described me as ‘dangerous’.”

And so the Brits have forgotten all about the wonderful success of their program now that American pressure for them to toe the line is no longer forthcoming? I dare say the best service you could render is to remind the Brits and get them to restart this program. It would produce a domino effect of drug legalization throughout the world if people's attention could just be brought to it.

1990 was over 20 years ago. You can't stop progress only delay it. What is stopping them from doing it now?

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:52 pm

What is stopping the Brits? I have no idea. I'm not that conversant with their situation but I did read this in the news.

From: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/electio ... cafes.html

A leaked policy document calls for the decriminalisation of the drug in an approach even more radical than Amsterdam’s.

The paper also suggests allowing possession of cannabis, social supply to adults and cultivation of the plants for personal use.

It follows an internal party vote that commits the Lib Dems to making it ‘no longer a crime for the occupier or manager of premises to permit someone to use cannabis on those premises’.

The party’s constitution binds its leaders – in power – to implement votes carried at annual conferences.

Liberal Democrats' Policy Position:

http://act.libdems.org.uk/group/liberal ... e=activity

=====

Face it D - prohibition is cracking in the West. With 76% (I have heard as high as 85% and as low as 67% in the last few years) saying it is not working.

Given that Palin's husband is an uber libertarian I expect that when she announces (early to mid-October is my guess) she will call for an end to prohibition as a waste of money.

I also expect her to be America's first female President. In a long line of American pro hempsters.

"Make the most of the Indian hemp seed, and sow it everywhere!" - George Washington

Marijuana has been medicine for 5,000 years. It was in the US pharmacopeia until it was outlawed in 1937. Do you really think George W. was unaware of its medicinal properties?

Marijuana has been used as an agent for achieving euphoria since ancient times; it was described in a Chinese medical compendium traditionally considered to date from 2737 B.C. Its use spread from China to India and then to N Africa and reached Europe at least as early as A.D. 500. A major crop in colonial North America, marijuana (hemp) was grown as a source of fiber. It was extensively cultivated during World War II, when Asian sources of hemp were cut off.

Marijuana was listed in the United States Pharmacopeia from 1850 until 1942 and was prescribed for various conditions including labor pains, nausea, and rheumatism. Its use as an intoxicant was also commonplace from the 1850s to the 1930s. A campaign conducted in the 1930s by the U.S. Federal Bureau of Narcotics (now the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs) sought to portray marijuana as a powerful, addicting substance that would lead users into narcotics addiction. It is still considered a “gateway” drug by some authorities. In the 1950s it was an accessory of the beat generation; in the 1960s it was used by college students and “hippies” and became a symbol of rebellion against authority.

Read more: marijuana: History of Marijuana Use — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0859 ... z1YQCap0mE

From: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... -marijuana

Notwithstanding their failure to make a fortune from hemp, Jefferson and Washington kept at it. Washington continued to tout the crop after he became president. Jefferson invented a better "hemp brake" to separate the fibers from the stalks, something he thought was so important agriculturally that he refused to patent it. This tells us two things. First, Jefferson ran an advanced marijuana processing facility. Second, he was a socialist.

Both Jefferson and Washington traded seeds and plants with other farmers on a regular basis. Jefferson wrote of receiving hemp seedlings from someone in Missouri, and it would have been only neighborly to send some Virginia seedlings back. Chances are Washington did the same. Couple this with the fact that the two men at least tried to sell their hemp crops and we're obliged to conclude: Washington and Jefferson weren't merely marijuana farmers, they were marijuana dealers.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:56 pm

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1914822337

http://www.medicalcannabis.com/Cannabis ... references

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:10 pm

I particularly liked this one:

CB(2) cannabinoid receptor activation is cardioprotective in a mouse model of ischemia/reperfusion. Translation: if you are predisposed to heart disease regular cannabis use may improve your odds of living.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19162037

NIH - Cannabinoids and Cancer
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term ... s%20cancer

NIH - Cannabinoids and Heart Disease
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term ... %20disease

When this goes public big time and people figure out that a relative might have had their life extended had this medicine been available it will put those supporting prohibition in a very bad odor.

Right now D you would hate to be me. By next year I expect positions to be reversed.

Of course there is always this possibility:

"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." - Max Planck

My mom at age 82 changed her mind about the Drug War. She is now 92. So I do have some hope for you. But not a lot. Most people stop learning by age 20 or 25.

But no matter. I think 67% is enough to change the political landscape if a candidate comes out on the side of the 67%.

T -13 days and counting.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:14 pm

MSimon wrote:
Face it D - prohibition is cracking in the West. With 76% (I have heard as high as 85% and as low as 67% in the last few years) saying it is not working.

Simon, everything is cracking in the west.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:32 pm

Diogenes wrote:
MSimon wrote:
Face it D - prohibition is cracking in the West. With 76% (I have heard as high as 85% and as low as 67% in the last few years) saying it is not working.

Simon, everything is cracking in the west.

I do not disagree with that one bit. BTW my numbers are for America.

rjaypeters · Post by **rjaypeters** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:13 am

Closer to the original subject: did any other see this?

How to Turn Republicans and Democrats Into Americans: An insider’s six-step plan to fix Congress By Mickey Edwards

Just the topic lines:

"1. Break the power of partisans to keep candidates off the general-election ballot.

2. Turn over the process of redrawing congressional districts to independent, nonpartisan commissions.

3. Allow members of any party to offer amendments to any House bill and—with rare exceptions—put those amendments to a vote.

4. Change the leadership structure of congressional committees.

5. Fill committee vacancies by lot.

6. Choose committee staff solely on the basis of professional qualifications."

Before you argue, read the whole article here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... cans/8521/

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:19 am

The first step to all that, full option voting; the ability to vote either for, OR AGAINST the candidate of your choise. Can't find one you like, then certainly there should be one you dislike the most. Vote AGAINST that candidate. (too bad you can't).

rjaypeters · Post by **rjaypeters** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:32 am

Oh, the fun part is the answer to the joke: "How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light-bulb? One, but the light-bulb must want to change."

How could we get the above changes enacted? Under your scheme, elected posts would go unfilled, I fear. Despite the salutary effect this might have in the short run, longer-term lack of people in place would hamper getting work done.

I'm growing more convinced of the opinion we will need a real, not manufactured, crisis to make all of us behave like adults*. I really don't want to go through such a crisis, but I won't get a choice, will I?

I live in beautifully, lovingly gerrymandered South Carolina where the district lines are not only graven in stone, they bear the weight of tradition. Dynamiting those district lines loose would take more than acts of our State legislature.

*If we remember how to do that.

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:36 am

Most folks don't act like "adults" in a crisis, they act like lemmings. They are SSOOOO easily lead. Why do you think so many crises are manufactured?

rjaypeters · Post by **rjaypeters** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:42 am

Indeed.

Code: Select all

"When in danger, or in doubt;
run in circles, scream and shout!"

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:53 am

rjaypeters wrote:Indeed.
Code: Select all
"When in danger, or in doubt;
run in circles, scream and shout!"

Indeed! With appreciation to Lorelei Long (or maybe her sister Lazi... don't call me lazy!)) (R.A.H.)

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:56 am

2. Turn over the process of redrawing congressional districts to independent, nonpartisan commissions.

What exactly does that mean? We get LGM? Resurrect Solomon?

The stumbling block to all this is that you are dealing with humans. And I believe the animal you describe in your 6 points is not remotely human.

My attitude? Government will always cause mischief. Make it as small as possible to limit the damage.

rjaypeters · Post by **rjaypeters** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:00 am

Well, the author started down the path of gambling with filling committee vacancies by lot...why not flip a coin to decide changing a particular boundary? How is that for impartial?

I too, am for limited government, but we still need some that works.