Scott, Lincoln argued that the =individual= has certain natural rights that the state could not ethically violate. Rights that exceeded any claim by the state. Slavery was one such violation.
The tea party today is arguing that the state taking from some to support others is a violation of the same right of a man to enjoy the product of his labors.
Second Worst President in US History.
Go re-read the arguments. Lincoln was being pressured by northerners to make said arguments. He himself could care less and only made it an issue as a method to maintain the union. What this has to do with the Tea Party I haven't a clue. The subjects at hand were Lincoln vs. Douglas and Margaret Thatcher. The Tea Party thread is above or below this topic.hanelyp wrote:Scott, Lincoln argued that the =individual= has certain natural rights that the state could not ethically violate. Rights that exceeded any claim by the state. Slavery was one such violation.
The tea party today is arguing that the state taking from some to support others is a violation of the same right of a man to enjoy the product of his labors.
You guys realize that we're currently living in a time of historically low tax rates along with historically high inequality, no? (not to mention regressive effective tax rates for the super wealthy)
Also, the US had an unprecedented period of growth and prosperity within the middle class from '47 up until Reagan where the highest marginal tax bracket was around 70%. Since then middle income wages have by and large, stagnated.
Also, for those listing all these historical presidents and saying they were all democrats. The democratic party wasn't really liberal until after the depression (or until the 60s when they lost the south... take your pick).
And finally, Jimmy Carter was the 2nd worst president EVAR! because he messed up relations with some third world shit hole... gimme a break.
Also the implication that Obama's the worst... you guys are nutjobs.
Also, the US had an unprecedented period of growth and prosperity within the middle class from '47 up until Reagan where the highest marginal tax bracket was around 70%. Since then middle income wages have by and large, stagnated.
Also, for those listing all these historical presidents and saying they were all democrats. The democratic party wasn't really liberal until after the depression (or until the 60s when they lost the south... take your pick).
And finally, Jimmy Carter was the 2nd worst president EVAR! because he messed up relations with some third world shit hole... gimme a break.
Also the implication that Obama's the worst... you guys are nutjobs.
Last edited by brian on Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You don't even understand the jargon you are spouting.brian wrote:You guys realize that we're currently living in a time of historically low tax rates along with historically high inequality, no? (not to mention regressive effect tax rates for the super wealthy)
And you probably don't even understand what is the Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.brian wrote: Also, the US had an unprecedented period of growth and prosperity within the middle class from '47 up until Reagan where the highest marginal tax bracket was around 70%. Since then middle income wages have by and large, stagnated.)
brian wrote: Also, for those listing all these historical presidents and saying they were all democrats. The democratic party wasn't really liberal until after the depression (or until the 60s when they lost the south... take your pick).
The Characteristic of the Democrat Party base from Andrew Jackson up to Barack Obama is a kind of Evil coupled with incredible stupidity on the part of it's voters and supporters. Look up Rachel Carson, who is singlehandedly responsible for the deaths of MILLIONS of people around the world because of her deceitful and wrongheaded push to ban DDT.
brian wrote: And finally, Jimmy Carter was the 2nd worst president EVAR! because he messed up relations with some third world shit hole... gimme a break.
Also the implication that Obama's the worst... you guys are nutjobs.
And you are so ignorant that you shouldn't even voice an opinion. Iran is going to nuke strike Israel. Israel will Nuke strike Iran, and then World War III will have begun. Iran is the reason why we built up Iraq, and later had to take it back down. The Iran/Iraq war killed millions of Iranians and Iraqis.
That seems to be the Characteristic of Liberal/ Democrat polices and ideas. From the millions dead and tortured because of Slavery, to the millions dead from Abortion, to the millions infected with venereal disease (AIDS), democrat ideas and policies seem to always gravitate towards the ultimate result of death in the long run.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
— Lord Melbourne —
No, I don't think that will do it. Upset a lot of folks, for sure. But, to get the major holders of weapons to start tossing them back and forth in a general exchange, no, I don't think so.Iran is going to nuke strike Israel. Israel will Nuke strike Iran, and then World War III will have begun.
I think sadly enough, If that happens, a lot of folks will die in east, west and south of the Arabian Gulf. But, given the lack of love for Iran by all it neighbours and beyond, I don't think many will rush to their aid after the Israelis give them what-for. The sad truth is, one way or another, the idiots running Iran are going to get a bunch of folks killed one day, and odds are most of them will be Iranian.
Even if they try to close of the gulf, they cut their own throats, and plus they can't keep it shut. Symbolic effort with certain suicide is the more than likely outcome for them.
On the bright side, most folks will be happier once the idiots in charge in Iran darwin themselves.
Hahaha how in the world do you expect yourself to be taken seriously? In one sentence you claim I'm "so ignorant that you shouldn't even voice an opinion" while in the very next sentence you sperg about your end-of-world WWIII fetish.
IT'S RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER GUYS.
Also, the only point you actually addressed was the post hoc ergo propter hoc thing. I never said that the reason for the prosperity was due to high taxes. The point was that high taxes aren't the job killing, unemployment boogeyman everyone's making them out to be.
IT'S RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER GUYS.
Also, the only point you actually addressed was the post hoc ergo propter hoc thing. I never said that the reason for the prosperity was due to high taxes. The point was that high taxes aren't the job killing, unemployment boogeyman everyone's making them out to be.
Last edited by brian on Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Diogenes, you can't deny the tax rate has decreased in the last 50 years. To say that its at historic lows seems accurate. What this infers and how you take it (your explosive rhetoric) is up to you, but these are facts.
As for the middle-class wage stagnation, they are stagnant when you take into consideration inflation/cost of living/etc. There is a dispairyt growing between the upper 20% and the middle 20% income earners, however; the work doesn't seem any harder, but you can claim that's anecdotal of course
As for the middle-class wage stagnation, they are stagnant when you take into consideration inflation/cost of living/etc. There is a dispairyt growing between the upper 20% and the middle 20% income earners, however; the work doesn't seem any harder, but you can claim that's anecdotal of course
ladajo wrote:No, I don't think that will do it. Upset a lot of folks, for sure. But, to get the major holders of weapons to start tossing them back and forth in a general exchange, no, I don't think so.Iran is going to nuke strike Israel. Israel will Nuke strike Iran, and then World War III will have begun.
I think sadly enough, If that happens, a lot of folks will die in east, west and south of the Arabian Gulf. But, given the lack of love for Iran by all it neighbours and beyond, I don't think many will rush to their aid after the Israelis give them what-for. The sad truth is, one way or another, the idiots running Iran are going to get a bunch of folks killed one day, and odds are most of them will be Iranian.
Even if they try to close of the gulf, they cut their own throats, and plus they can't keep it shut. Symbolic effort with certain suicide is the more than likely outcome for them.
On the bright side, most folks will be happier once the idiots in charge in Iran darwin themselves.
I hope your minimalist view is correct. I really really do. I feel very badly for Israel though. It's going to be bad for them either way.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
— Lord Melbourne —
So what are your strategies for survival against the zombie hoards resulting from WWIII fallout?
Also, do you think they'll remember who they once were? Will we have Muslim zombies and Jewish zombies or will they unite together in their search for human brains?
What's really gonna suck though is when those darn liberal scientists attempt to play god and "cure" the zombies inadvertently making it a contagious disease.
Friggin' Carter unleashing the zombie apocalypse. God.
Also, do you think they'll remember who they once were? Will we have Muslim zombies and Jewish zombies or will they unite together in their search for human brains?
What's really gonna suck though is when those darn liberal scientists attempt to play god and "cure" the zombies inadvertently making it a contagious disease.
Friggin' Carter unleashing the zombie apocalypse. God.
ScottL wrote:Diogenes, you can't deny the tax rate has decreased in the last 50 years. To say that its at historic lows seems accurate. What this infers and how you take it (your explosive rhetoric) is up to you, but these are facts.
As for the middle-class wage stagnation, they are stagnant when you take into consideration inflation/cost of living/etc. There is a dispairyt growing between the upper 20% and the middle 20% income earners, however; the work doesn't seem any harder, but you can claim that's anecdotal of course
It is misleading. We previously had higher tax rates, but we had more tax shelters. People with sufficient means do not pay taxes to the degree suggested by their tax rates.
My observation is that much of the game playing regarding taxes, tax rates, tax shelters, etc. seems to be geared more to preventing upward mobility than any other purpose. ( Consider your own comments regarding the upper 20% and the middle 20%) Those with sufficient means easily duck tax requirements. (See Obama Supporting General Electric. e.g.) It is only that group of people striving to break into the wealthy class that seem to get soaked the most. They aren't wealthy enough to pull the shenanigans (like offshore income and accounts) that the wealthier do, and they are not poor enough to get any breaks in that direction either.
The entire tax system needs to be viewed as a composite in context, not as an instantaneous value. (i.e. tax rate.)
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
— Lord Melbourne —
brian wrote:So what are your strategies for survival against the zombie hoards resulting from WWIII fallout?
Also, do you think they'll remember who they once were? Will we have Muslim zombies and Jewish zombies or will they unite together in their search for human brains?
What's really gonna suck though is when those darn liberal scientists attempt to play god and "cure" the zombies inadvertently making it a contagious disease.
Friggin' Carter unleashing the zombie apocalypse. God.
You joke. More like "Mad Max."
http://minx.cc/?post=321011
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
— Lord Melbourne —
Ex-President Carter sends condolences to Kim Jong-un
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/ins ... m-jong-un/
What an idiot.
"In the message Jimmy Carter extended condolences to Kim Jong Un and the Korean people over the demise of leader Kim Jong Il. He wished Kim Jong Un every success as he assumes his new responsibility of leadership, looking forward to another visit to [North Korea] in the future," the KCNA dispatch read.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/ins ... m-jong-un/
What an idiot.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
— Lord Melbourne —
