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[Skipjack]

I do not understand what this phrase have to do with chemical process.

I would assume that it was meant as an attempt to bring some humor to the discussion.

[Joseph Chikva]

I do not understand what this phrase have to do with chemical process.

I would assume that it was meant as an attempt to bring some humor to the discussion.

Because of my bad English I did not understand that.
If humor, when googling I also found this link: Elbow Grease(R) lubricant "Fusion" and there is the photo of two gays
http://www.elbowgreaselubricants.com/el ... index.html

[ladajo]

ROTFL

[Joseph Chikva]

ROTFL

Thanks, you are the first man who said that likes my joke in English.

[bennmann]

ಠ_ಠ

[Giorgio]

Actually yes, as:

For the chemists out there, we have a few cleaning questions....

So, he asked for namely chemical solution.

Do you understand the difference between a chemist and a chemical?
Have you ever seen a chemist cleaning his glassware simply with water and "elbow grease" or the one you know clean them only by etching?

Actually no. Unlike copper the glass withstands acidic media very well. I have extensive experience in working with chemical glassware

Oh my my.....talking to you is always a quest.
If copper is fused to the glass and you remove the copper by etching, the glass will be full of pits on its surface. This happens because a fusing process of a metal on the glass normally creates a small crater in the glass surface.
All this pits will render the glass useless for its primary scope, that is watching in a clear way what is happening inside the reactor, so the glass will need to be changed.

Is it clear now?

Not "probably" but 100% you are wrong. Nothing will happen with glass after etching. Your assumption vs. my knowledge.

You make up your own personal idea of what I am saying and than you tell me I am 100% wrong... funny.
But really, this is becoming more and more a cliche that you should try to overcome.
Again, put some effort in understanding one's post before replying, it just requires some willingness.

[Joseph Chikva]

Actually no. Unlike copper the glass withstands acidic media very well. I have extensive experience in working with chemical glassware

Oh my my.....talking to you is always a quest.
If copper is fused to the glass and you remove the copper by etching, the glass will be full of pits on its surface. This happens because a fusing process of a metal on the glass normally creates a small crater in the glass surface.
All this pits will render the glass useless for its primary scope, that is watching in a clear way what is happening inside the reactor, so the glass will need to be changed.

Is it clear now?

That's was clear for the beginning that glass after bombardment with 45xA keV copper ions after cleaning will not be useful for astronomic purposes.
But that would be transparent enough for declared application - watching plasmoid forming process by high speed camera. As craters will have micro-sizes and their surface density will not be too high.
But your mechanical scraping proposal will not be useful for removal of copper from those craters at all.

As metal has smaller hardness than glass and, so, you will not be able to improve the already spoiled surface too. Additionally you will not be able to remove copper from "craters".
Simply if LLP would use etching they will have glass with copper free surface with permanently by each shot worsen transparency.
And in case of your proposal they will have glass with micro-craters full of copper.
Which one is better?

[Giorgio]

That's was clear for the beginning that glass after bombardment with 45xA keV copper ions after cleaning will not be useful for astronomic purposes.
But that would be transparent enough for declared application - watching plasmoid forming process by high speed camera. As craters will have micro-sizes and their surface density will not be too high.
But your mechanical scraping proposal will not be useful for removal of copper from those craters at all.

That is because YOU are implying that the copper will fuse with the metal.
I am objecting this point.

I strongly doubt that copper dust from the electrodes can actually retain enough energy to fuse with a glass that is placed at several decimeters away and at 90 degree from the plasma discharge direction.
Even more if we consider the power/time frame of the experimental setup.

Someone from FF can clarify this, but I will be amazed of the opposite.

[Joseph Chikva]

That is because YOU are implying that the copper will fuse with the metal.

Me? Thank you for discussion, Georgio.

[Giorgio]

That is because YOU are implying that the copper will fuse with the metal.

Me? Thank you for discussion, Georgio.

I had almost forgotten how useless is to try to have a constructive discussion with you.
Thanks for remembering it to me.

[Joseph Chikva]

Ok

That is because YOU are implying that the copper will fuse with the metal.

and

If they really intend to etch the copper deposit...

If?

I highly doubt that the copper residue on the windows are "fused" with the glass as to need etching for a complete removal.
That's why I used the IF.

Which one has been said by me?
And with which one "my" statement are you disagree, my useful friend? With first or with the second?

[ladajo]

Ok, I'm lost now.

[Joseph Chikva]

Ok, I'm lost now.

I meant always glass etching.
I do not know whence Georgio took metal etching. I haven't wanted to discuss further and have thanked him intending to close conversation.

Henning here http://focusfusion.org/index.php/forums/viewthread/952/ wrote to DPF people:

For cleaning the glass from copper, Joseph Chikva proposes to use circuit board etching technique (of course without protecting any surface for the conductive path):
viewtopic.php?t=2126&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=388

Here it’s described how you do it step by step (without Google translation):
http://www.wikihow.com/Etch-a-Circuit-Board

BTW, he also worries about hydrocarbon contamination induced by the Mylar insulators. I just want to mention this, so in case you get more unwanted hydrocarbons, these might be the source.

[Giorgio]

Ok, I'm lost now.

I meant always glass etching.
I do not know whence Georgio took metal etching. I haven't wanted to discuss further and have thanked him intending to close conversation.

I also always meant "etching of copper from the glass".
I wanted to type "metal copper will fuse with the glass", but somehow I made a mistake and glass got deleted. It should have been obvious that we are talking about glass, but if you need a confirmation here you have it.

Etching of the glass is needed ONLY if the metal copper is fused to the glass surface, otherwise is plenty of cheaper and less troublesome systems to remove copper deposits.
Hopefully now is finally clear.

[Joseph Chikva]

Etching of the glass is needed ONLY if the metal copper is fused to the glass surface, otherwise is plenty of cheaper and less troublesome systems to remove copper deposits.
Hopefully now is finally clear.

Not quite clear. As etching procedure is rather simple and cheap.
And without etching you will not can clean surface that has been bombarded by not low energetic copper ions. Even if copper will be in single charged ion form, its energy will not be less than 45keV.