10KW LENR Demonstrator?

[Joseph Chikva]

You are confused.

Really?
Does D+He3 give variable yield?
Or "fixed amount" means only "fixed small amount"?
I thought that "fixed amount" means both: "fixed small" and "fixed big" amounts as well.

[D Tibbets]

In the video, Rossi stated that the input water flow rate was 2 g - ml per second. The 7.2 kg/ hr is derived from this. Whether this was the actual flow rate is unknown, it is based entirely on Rossi's statement.
If he is claiming ~ 4 KW output, this would be consistant with ~ total conversion to steam 0f initially 30 degree C water. The question is if the output = input (no hidden plumbing bypassing the thermister), and/ or the percent of the boiling water actually converted to steam.

Dan Tibbets

[Giorgio]

You are confused.

Really?
Does D+He3 give variable yield?
Or "fixed amount" means only "fixed small amount"?
I thought that "fixed amount" means both: "fixed small" and "fixed big" amounts as well.

You are not understanding the subject of the discussion or you are probably not understanding the meaning of "fixed amount".
It means a "constant quantity per unit of volume".
So, if 1 lt of hydride holds 10Kw, than 10 lt will hold 100 Kw and 1/10 lt will hold 1 Kw.

So, what I am stating is that an hydride can only hold a fixed amount of heat per unit of volume.
What has this to do with the D+He3 fusion example that you made?

[Kahuna]

Rossi should be presented (confronted) with all this good relative steam velocity stuff on his blog. Has anyone done that yet?

It would be interesting to see his reaction. If he reacts as he and Levi did to Krivit (i.e. with a dismissive and angry diatribe), I think that would be somewhat revealing (although not conclusive). Anyway, I do not think we should let Chris' nice videos just die here.

[D Tibbets]

Ok, I am sorry to interrupt in the middle of this thread. I don't think I have the kind of background that most other posters have so let me know if my questions have been answered in any previous page.

If the amount of steam has that has been coming out of the output has been called in question because the flow coming out of the output doesn't look like 7 l/hr then where does the water go? Was the pump examined? Is he actually pumping 7 l/hr into it? Did Krivit (or anyone) look at the pump?

Very confused.

The volume flow was not 7 liters per hr, the mass flow was claimed to be 7 kg/ hr.
1 mole of water (~ 18 g will produce ~22.4 liters of steam, probably a little more due to the temperature being above STP.
7 kg/ 18 g/ mole = ~ 400 moles
400 moles * 22.4 liters / mole = 8,960 liters of steam per hour, or ~ 2.5 liters per second.

Dan Tibbets

[cg66]

If you look at Lewan’s video at the beginning (around 0:05-0:17) you can see when the peristaltic pump pushing water through the tube (the tube jumps). Looks like it happens every 2 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVEBCN6D13w

If you look at Krivit’s video you can see the pump in action around 2:40 – a little harder to tell but the pump also seems to be pushing every 2 seconds or so.

http://www.youtube.com/user/StevenKrivi ... -8QdVwY98E

Anyone have the specs on the pump? Displacement per revolution of the pump? Lewan measured (by weight) a flow of 4.12 kg/hr.

[Giorgio]

Rossi should be presented (confronted) with all this good relative steam velocity stuff on his blog. Has anyone done that yet?

It would be interesting to see his reaction. If he reacts as he and Levi did to Krivit (i.e. with a dismissive and angry diatribe), I think that would be somewhat revealing (although not conclusive). Anyway, I do not think we should let Chris' nice videos just die here.

Unless he prefers to do this by himself I'll post Chris videos, with a request of explanation, on Rossi blog tonight once I am back from dinner.

[KitemanSA]

Welcome to the group mclumber1
So if I follow, you think saturated water mist or drops
from the boiling process are mechanically being
ejected out of the ecat and into the hose by the real steam flow?

I can't say for certain that is what is happening, but it is definitely a possibility considering how the steam generator is oriented.

Especially since the horizontal generator feeds into a vertical "chimney" which may or may not contain some sort of moisture seperator.

[parallel]

Dan Tibbets,

Georgio seems to be ignoring your calculation that is very different from his.

As surmised, Defkalion has done a number of lab tests themselves. Hard to imagine they would contemplate their investment without doing so.

From their new web site:

A big number of in house lab prototype e-cat tests have been succesfully concluded by Defkalion GT during the previous months. As far as we know, there are no any more third party testing or demos scheduled on lab prototype e-cats (similar to Kullander or other) till November.

At the moment there are no other third party testing on Hyperion Products other than the ones in progress by the Greek Authorities.
Results of these official tests on performance, stability, functionality and safety will be released following the issuing of the final Certificates by the Greek Authorities

Any other scheduled before end of Octomber third-party-tests on Hyperion products and their results (including data, protocols etc) will be announced and published through DGT official site .

ref http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3

[D Tibbets]

I have just done a preliminary trial using a kettle on a gas hob.

Nice job chrismb, thanks for sharing.. and saving me the trouble.

A simple way of determining the total enthalpy coming from your hose is to fill a 1L pop bottle 1/2 full of cold water and put your steam pipe to the bottom. Time it for a minute or so and determine the energy from the start and end temps and the water increase.

Ditto.
An additional demonstration to visualize the expected gas/ steam flow rate , if your hose is long enough, placing the end of the hose under water would produce bubbles. Compare yours to the bubble rate in the
demo at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVEBCN6D ... re=related

At ~ 3:38in the video, the hose was pushed into the water and the bubble production was seen. Rossi said that the machine was operating at ~ 3 KW at the time.

[EDIT] - Opps, I see you already did this, in the second video.
My interpretation is that your bubbling rate was ~ 2-3 times that in the above linked video of the Rossi device. This is not very good for the Rossi claims of ~ 3 KW of dry steam output.



Dan Tibbets

[KitemanSA]

Thanks for that.
To the best of my knowledge if the steam in a boiler is in contact with the water
there must be droplets in the steam and completely dry steam requires
that steam be run through a super heater of some sort to vaporize the mist. This has been bugging me for a while now.
Is this correct?

You do not need to superheat the steam in order to get it mostly (99% or so) dry steam, but you do need to use baffles and/or moisture separators which mechanically remove the water droplets and return them to the water mass below. The steam generator designs I have worked with all work on this principal.

(Sorry for the redundancy but) a moisture seperator which may be in the "chimney". Even a plain chimney will help with the seperation (though not much).

But I think Rossi is claiming the steam is superheated no?

Do you consider 1°C "superheat"? About the amount of superheat one can get with a scaly teapot.

[KitemanSA]

That is truth when I am saying - this field interaction of some metals (Ni, V, Pd, Ti, La and other rare metals, intermetalids) with hydrogen has been researched many years ago.

No $#!T Sherlock. But if you think that all possible knowledge of all possible reactions between H and Ni have been fully investigated you are a fool.

Purpose of those researches is the creation of advanced materials for hydrogen storages and heat storages.

Every one of them a CHEMICAL reaction.

Regardless of nature (nuclear or chemical) the energy balance of those reaction are known very well and I doubt that you with Mr.Kite will discover any novelty.

More fool, you!

One of known for me researchers was Philips (Eindhoven) with their advanced lab facilities and very skilled staff. Would this information not enough for you?

No, this information is not enough. It is irrelavant and redundantly so. Some investigators have made statements about heat outputs beyond what ANY, ANY, ANY chemical reaction can make. Do you understand that simple statement? Can you comprehend that? ANY chemical reaction, including the F*ing hydrogenation of a metal matrix. OK? Got it? Geez, dude, give it a rest.

[Giorgio]

Dan Tibbets,

Georgio seems to be ignoring your calculation that is very different from his.

No is not. You probably are not understanding what Dan is talking about.

[Kahuna]

Google translation of Levi interview in which he gives some insights into the UoD E-Cat R&D project:

http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... pe-levi%2F

He actually sounds pretty reasonable here IMO as opposed to his rant in response to the Krivit report.

[KitemanSA]

Regarding the flow rate of steam output:

From here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-8QdVwY98E

At around 2:40, you can see that he is pumping water from a large jug, which is exposed and is in plain sight. At one point in the video, I believe he says that the pumping rate is documented by weighing the jug at certain time intervals. Lot's of people have seen this system run for many hours.

I think that the Krivit demo was perhaps the worst thing Rossi has done to himself. Even if the E-Cat is not bogus, I have to conclude based on lack of H2O output that this particular run is. Thanks for the data Chris.
Of course my conclusions are tentative because CMB hasn't provided peer reviewed, published results...