Crawdaddy wrote:If you measure the time it takes for a known mass of water to reach 100C (using like a meat thermometer or something) then you can estimate the actual input power and determine a measure of wetness/dryness for your steam.
Yeah, I could do a few more things to get a better 'power equivalence', but this wasn't my aim. The power figure is just for guidance. This was just a prelude to an electrically powered demo at 2kW, or so.
The key thing I am trying to show is what 25g/min of emitted vapour looks like coming out of a pipe. Rossi is claiming 7l/hr, which is about 5 times the quantity of emitted water vapour than I am showing here.
So the question is, does Rossi's tube [top] look like it is emitting 5 times the quantity that is shown being emitted in my demo [bottom]?
Last edited by chrismb on Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
chrismb wrote:I have just done a preliminary trial using a kettle on a gas hob.
Nice job chrismb, thanks for sharing.. and saving me the trouble.
A simple way of determining the total enthalpy coming from your hose is to fill a 1L pop bottle 1/2 full of cold water and put your steam pipe to the bottom. Time it for a minute or so and determine the energy from the start and end temps and the water increase.
So the question is, does Rossi's tube [top] look like it is emitting 5 times the quantity that is shown being emitted in my demo [bottom]?
Don't get me wrong, I am totally on board with your experiment and appreciate the effort you are putting into it, but without proper measurement of the input energy you can't compare your steam to Rossi's because dry steam is invisible.
Sparkyy0007 advice is way better than my suggestion as a method of measuring the quality of your steam.
Also running the experiment for a long time like an hour and observing the steam after the hose temperature has come to equilibrium would be a killer variation.
Crawdaddy wrote:Don't get me wrong, I am totally on board with your experiment and appreciate the effort you are putting into it, but without proper measurement of the input energy you can't compare your steam to Rossi's because dry steam is invisible.
Well, that might be the case but that even though air is invisible, if it is moving you can see which direction it pushes the clouds!!!
Actually, it seems to me to be a bit obvious that my steam is drier - at the immediate exit of the tube there is no visible steam in mine, yet there is visible steam in Rossi's tube. If Rossi had a pile of invisible steam coming out with it, wouldn't it push that visible steam straight out of the pipe rather than it drifiting upwards?
chrismb wrote:I have just done a preliminary trial using a kettle on a gas hob.
Nice job chrismb, thanks for sharing.. and saving me the trouble.
A simple way of determining the total enthalpy coming from your hose is to fill a 1L pop bottle 1/2 full of cold water and put your steam pipe to the bottom. Time it for a minute or so and determine the energy from the start and end temps and the water increase.
Just a side note, if you do this the vapor bubbles should completely
collapse before they ever reach the top of the liquid if you start with reasonably cold water.
If not, increase the water column height. O and please share a vid.
I'm sure he won't respond, but it would still be fun to post to his site and ask him to explain.
Actually, in Krivit's video you can actually sense that he fears viewers might question the amount of steam since, un-prompted, he offers:
"And of course it is not that much visible because is very hot".
This biggest mystery remaining, in my mind, is why is Levi so steadfastly standing by Rossi? What does he have to gain from this? He's driving his career off a cliff in slow motion, and not even so much as bothering to cover the brake...
chrismb - very cool - glad you stuck around in the thread!
In the Kullander and both Lewan demos the power was only 345W and like you said the steam in the bucket in Lewan's video looks more impressive. Also in the 1st three demo's the hydrogen was connected and weighed. In Kirvit's demo power was 780W and the hydrogen source was never connected. Perhaps Rossi didn't have an operational ECat set up and he used the internal heater for show. He ran 3 demos with lower power why did he run at 780 for Kirvit? Seems strange.
sparkyy0007 wrote:I think this thread has reached a milestone, good job everyone!
I still would like to think this demo was just a sideshow and maybe the others had substance. But we are making progress
What progress are you making - learning how better to measure heat of evaporating water?
• My advice is to focus on the reaction which should produce heat.
• For avoiding the misreading to increase flow from 2 g/s to 30 g/s (108 L/h) and to measure only delta t. (If 5kW is truth that would give about 40 deg of delta t and no evaporation)
sparkyy0007 wrote:I think this thread has reached a milestone, good job everyone!
I still would like to think this demo was just a sideshow and maybe the others had substance. But we are making progress
What progress are you making - learning how better to measure heat of evaporating water?
• My advice is to focus on the reaction which should produce heat.
• For avoiding the misreading to increase flow from 2 g/s to 30 g/s (108 L/h) and to measure only delta t. (If 5kW is truth that would give about 40 deg of delta t and no evaporation)
cg66 wrote:In the Kullander and both Lewan demos the power was only 345W and like you said the steam in the bucket in Lewan's video looks more impressive. Also in the 1st three demo's the hydrogen was connected and weighed. In Kirvit's demo power was 780W and the hydrogen source was never connected. Perhaps Rossi didn't have an operational ECat set up and he used the internal heater for show. He ran 3 demos with lower power why did he run at 780 for Kirvit? Seems strange.
Perhaps in the earlier demonstrations he was cheating in some other way, but with all the focus on things that were not measured well in the previous demos he was afraid the cheat would be discovered? Still, whatever cheat he may have been using in previous demos seems more convincing than the Krivit demo-- I would suggest for him to return to his original cheat.
sparkyy0007 wrote:I think this thread has reached a milestone, good job everyone!
I still would like to think this demo was just a sideshow and maybe the others had substance. But we are making progress
What progress are you making - learning how better to measure heat of evaporating water?
• My advice is to focus on the reaction which should produce heat.
• For avoiding the misreading to increase flow from 2 g/s to 30 g/s (108 L/h) and to measure only delta t. (If 5kW is truth that would give about 40 deg of delta t and no evaporation)
