10KW LENR Demonstrator?

[Joseph Chikva]

...
Do you speak about chapters:
2.8 Electromigration - Quantum compression
2.9 Skin effect
2.10 The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle?

no. i was reading chapters 2.11 onward. but lots of 'maybe's' throughout - and in 2.8 sure, though 2.9 & 210 are just reciting known science.

...
Let's them prove. I would be only glad. Now I see only an eclectic mix of known and unknown (only for me) claims. And not theory explaining something.
PS: if matter+antimatter interaction (annihilation) much more energy than mentioned 782KeV to 9.3MeV can be gained.

indeed. though much of any 'actual' application in this matter should be reasonably straight forward to verify (though they have not yet done that, nor claim to have, from what i see). just a rough sketch of a hypothesis at this level. (i dont know where antimatter comes in to it - unless as sarcasm perhaps .. ).

So, they make metal hydride, propagate through that high current and execute nuclear reaction. If that feasible even my grandmother can prove that with 300USD budget and existence of some laboratory facilities.

[KitemanSA]

The claimed effect is just too big.

Even Rossi says his process is not very good for electrical generation.

Don't you find these 2 points to be opposing each other?

Not at all.

We have had indications from Rossi of COP of 20 and up to several 100's, yet he affirms this is not suitable for power (steam?) generation.
This is not something that makes much sense IMHO.

Makes total sense to me if the temperature of the steam is limited to about 100° C. He said the efficiency would be about 5% which is what you would get with that input and typical output temps and typical mechanical conversion efficiencies. I didn't say he said it wouldn't work, just that it wasn't very good for it. COULD you do it? Sure. Would it be worth it? Not so sure.

[KitemanSA]

The time line starts at the DEMONSTRATION of an anomaly. The transistor anomaly was demonstrated in 1948. By 1954 there was a transistor INDUSTRY. And even if you go with Lilenfield (sp?) as the first device it was never demonstrated until about 5 or 6 years after the BJT. Conceptually a different organization - a current controlled device vs voltage controlled.

Hmm, different devices are an excuse in transitors but NOT in LENR? doesn't seem very fair.

[parallel]

I think a good example of the curiosities of patent law is the Pilkington float glass process. Bessemer had patented the idea of floating glass on liquid metal some 60(?) years before that. Strictly speaking Pilks should not have been given a patent.

The fact was, Pilks had learned how to make it work and so was given a patent. That they were rich and paid off some people may not be relevant.
They actually ran the first experimental line for a year without making one square foot of salable product. They were about to give up when part of the block that directed the glass onto the tin bath failed and broke off. The process then worked.

The question is, should they have been given a patent for discovering the "know how" that is not patentable?

[rcain]

...
So, they make metal hydride, propagate through that high current and execute nuclear reaction. If that feasible even my grandmother can prove that with 300USD budget and existence of some laboratory facilities.

ROFL! better get her straight on the job then.

[Joseph Chikva]

...
So, they make metal hydride, propagate through that high current and execute nuclear reaction. If that feasible even my grandmother can prove that with 300USD budget and existence of some laboratory facilities.

ROFL! better get her straight on the job then.

Aside joke but it very easy to prove that phenomenon.
I am sure that impossible to execute nuclear in that conditions. Who believe let's prove. That would not be expensive.
Then I will trust too.
Thanks.

[parallel]

KitemanSA wrote:

Makes total sense to me if the temperature of the steam is limited to about 100° C. He said the efficiency would be about 5% which is what you would get with that input and typical output temps and typical mechanical conversion efficiencies. I didn't say he said it wouldn't work, just that it wasn't very good for it. COULD you do it? Sure. Would it be worth it? Not so sure.

You have missed something. Rossi said that 100C steam was not much good for generating electricity. I think this was in response to the idea of using a Stirling engine. Elsewhere, has has stated the upper limit would be 550C and quite high pressure ( I don't want to quote the number from memory.) This would enable electricity generation at low cost.

He has also recently updated his E-Cat schedule to say the 1 MW plant will be demonstrated in the last week of October.

[Kahuna]

By the way, the University of Bologna decided on the committee that will make the measurements on the Rossi e-Cat:

Ennio Bonetti - Associate Professor of Physics of the Matter
Enrico Campari - Associate Professor of Experimental Physics
Loris Ferrari - Associate Professor of Physics
Giuseppe Levi - Researcher of Nuclear and Subnuclear Physics
Mauro Villa - Associate Professor of Experimental Physics

I will research on them and post a brief CV on each of them if I have time later tonight.

Nice find G! Do you have a reference/link? It would seem odd to select this group now if the E-Cat was not coming to them until late fall. I suspect the July date makes more sense based on the formation of this group.

You might want to resend the email you sent to the Swedes with your suggested E-Cat testbed and see if you get a response from any of them. I took the liberty of pulling their email addresses in case you want to do that (although you probably have already have done it).

ennio.bonetti@unibo.it;
enrico.campari@unibo.it;
loris.ferrari@unibo.it;
giuseppe.levi@unibo.it;
mauro.villa@unibo.it

[parallel]

Joseph Chikva

Aside joke but it very easy to prove that phenomenon.
I am sure that impossible to execute nuclear in that conditions. Who believe let's prove. That would not be expensive.

Why don't you do it then? I'll answer that for you. For the same reason that others will not try it. They don't believe it will work, so fear they will just waste their time and possibly be tarred with the cold fusion brush.
So even if it does work, few are prepared to try and replicate it.

[parallel]

Kahuna wrote:

You might want to resend the email you sent to the Swedes with your suggested E-Cat testbed

You believe in teaching granny how to suck eggs?

[Giorgio]

Makes total sense to me if the temperature of the steam is limited to about 100° C. He said the efficiency would be about 5% which is what you would get with that input and typical output temps and typical mechanical conversion efficiencies. I didn't say he said it wouldn't work, just that it wasn't very good for it. COULD you do it? Sure. Would it be worth it? Not so sure.

He stated several times in the replies on his website that the e-Cats can be connected in serial and parallel to increase temperature and pressure.
This is why I find strange that he also states that the e-cat is not suited for power generation.

[Giorgio]

Kahuna wrote:

You might want to resend the email you sent to the Swedes with your suggested E-Cat testbed

You believe in teaching granny how to suck eggs?

At least he believes in scientific method, which is more that can be said about some other people that frequent this forum

[parallel]

take the man at his word until he's proven wrong.

I'm looking for a banker who operates under that principle. I will explain to him about my secret source of cash and why it would be good business to loan me as much as I want. Pending getting the other funds moving of course. These super double secret operations take time.

If you had demonstrated your source to several other senior, independent bankers, or publicly showed your stack of gold bullion, you might have a comparable analogy.

[Giorgio]

Nice find G! Do you have a reference/link?

Here is an article of Prof. Ferrari where he gives the group composition:
http://www.socialnews.it/ARTICOLI2011/A ... sione.html
It is in italian.

It would seem odd to select this group now if the E-Cat was not coming to them until late fall. I suspect the July date makes more sense based on the formation of this group.

Dunno, to understand one should know what is going on behind the scene, especially money wise.
If Rossi is indeed paying 500K Euro for the research I can assure you that they will move quickly. University departments in Italy are in dire financial situation due to recent governament cuts and 500K Euro can solve quite few issues

[KitemanSA]

The time line starts at the DEMONSTRATION of an anomaly. The transistor anomaly was demonstrated in 1948. By 1954 there was a transistor INDUSTRY. And even if you go with Lilenfield (sp?) as the first device it was never demonstrated until about 5 or 6 years after the BJT. Conceptually a different organization - a current controlled device vs voltage controlled.

History Of Semiconductors
In simple words semiconductors are substances or devices which can take the form of silicon or germanium and with the toting up of electronic circuit system, it can be extensively used in communications, technology detection and computers. Semiconductor devices’ first introduction took place in 1833.

The first silicon transistor was invented in the year 1954 by Michael Faraday. This introduction replaced the old vacuum tubes, previously used in computers. Microprocessor is a kind of semiconductor and is widely used to perform several functions.

Emphasis added.
Wow, 1833 to 1954, first anomaly of semiconduction to prototype device. By this timeline, we won't have to see LENR devices for another century!!!