A picture is worth a thousand words.

[Diogenes]

Well, it's pretty obvious that stamp wasn't made on that background, isn't it!?

White outline is a PDF compression/layer artifact.

Yes, same stamp, obviously. Anyone who would think differently probably has never used a rubber stamp before.

Why would there be such an artifact? Here is a scan of a document in a PDF file, and it does not contain such artifacts.

[seedload]

Why on earth would these white spaces be part of the White House document?

They are not.

Surely it didn't come from Hawaii like this.

It did not.



Look, I don't believe that you don't understand this anymore. My opinion is that you are clearly faking ignorance.

I am exiting this discussion. Good luck to you.

[Diogenes]

The same layer argument was used when the short form Obama document was produced. The halo around the lettering was questioned and again it was a PDF artifact. Yes, the PDF is not the document - it is a PDF (compressed) copy of the document. Also questioned was, where are the folds and where is the raised seal. All among the same arguments posted here about the certified copy of the original, scanned to a PDF and distributed.

http://factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/

Funny, the stamp for that one had many more ink distribution problems than the stamp used on the latest certified copy.

Anyway, I know something about digital compression algorithms but not a lot about PDF specifically. All I know about PDF is what I have read on this subject and the fact that it is consistent with what I know about other compression algorithms. That is enough for me.

One wonders why the Obama camp would have such a good fake stamp for the fake short form birth certificate and not just reuse it on the fake long form one? Why throw out the fake stamp and replace it with one that is misspelled with an X? Why use the stamp on the first fake directly, as evidenced by the fact check photos, and then for the long form fake, digitally impose the stamp badly enough to forget to take away some white pixels. No, sorry, sometimes the simple explanation, that this is real, is the right one.

regards

For reference, same white outline on this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... Hawaii.jpg

and if you go to the fact check site, you see photos of it.

I'm not a PDF or photoshop expert either. One does not need to be to question the competence of someone who thought releasing a document in this form was a good idea. In any case, there are experts that claim it has been manipulated.





http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2 ... is-a-fake/


Even supposing a scan to a PDF file does this sort of thing normally, (despite what some experts say) why on earth would someone want to post such a document that LOOKS manipulated? Is it just incredible stupidity or an intentional tactic to keep the issue alive?

A JPG or a BMP or a GIF, or pretty much any other format would have prevented this sort of crap from even becoming part of the conversation.

[MSimon]

From Gateway:

why are there any layers on this document at all?

Seems like a good question.

[Diogenes]

If I wasn't the innocent fellow that I am, I'd have suggested that the funny 'TXE' instead of 'THE' is a distraction technique to get people talking about the wrong defect of the reproduction at the top, and distract them from the obvious defect.

Very cunning... if I were to believe such a thing!

It could be a plan, or it could just be incompetence. My experience with various Local, State, and National Governments is that they are rife with incompetence, so that would be my first guess.

If it is a state official mistake, they would have had to have been stupid enough to produce a new stamp (other than the one they usually use) with a misspelled 'THE' on it just so they could badly stamp the certificate.

Getting a bad stamp is one version of a mistake. Another version is not cleaning the bit of fluff off of the stamp and redoing the document. Again, how much does paper and ink cost? You would think that something which is going to be scrutinized by millions ought to merit a slight amount of care.

Alternately, it could be part of the Obama camp forgery, which would mean that the Obama camp had to produce a new fake stamp to use other than the one they used on the short form, shown here:

http://factcheck.org/Images/image/birth ... cate_9.jpg

Or it could be an intentional effort to keep a certain segment of people chattering about this aspect of it, or it could be a great big F*** you to his critics. It's not like he is above this sort of thing.

"Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity."

Exactly why birthers are not necessarily racists.

Oh, but we must utilize every opportunity to imply that they are. Yeah, if that's your argument then your credibility is done as far as i'm concerned. God forbid that someone who is a minority can be criticized for lying and incompetence. THAT is Racism at work. As i've mentioned before, Obama was elected ONLY because he was black. Had he been a White candidate with the same personality and positions, he would have been nothing, and he would have gone no where. (Just another bland candidate.)

In any case, I've criticized Democrats and their stupid destructive ideas all the way back to the founder of their Party. (Andrew Jackson. And if you will notice, I've been doing it since well before the election.) I am not going to stop because they thought they would be clever and pick a Black Democrat just to stifle criticism of their stupid ideas and deceitful tactics. You should take a lesson from me in this and look beyond a person's color. Pretending someone is being honest and forthright when they are not (Just because they are black) may be a benign form of racism, but it is still a form of racism. Judge a man by his deeds, not by his genes.

[Diogenes]

Why on earth would these white spaces be part of the White House document?

They are not.

Surely it didn't come from Hawaii like this.

It did not.



Look, I don't believe that you don't understand this anymore. My opinion is that you are clearly faking ignorance.

I am exiting this discussion. Good luck to you.

It is my opinion that you are NOT faking ignorance.

[seedload]

Btw - the subject line is pretty ironic isn't it.

[chrismb]

Are you referring to the picture 3 posts back? A picture can be worth one 4 letter word!? lol!

[seedload]

"Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity."

Exactly why birthers are not necessarily racists.

Oh, but we must utilize every opportunity to imply that they are. Yeah, if that's your argument then your credibility is done as far as i'm concerned. God forbid that someone who is a minority can be criticized for lying and incompetence. THAT is Racism at work. As i've mentioned before, Obama was elected ONLY because he was black. Had he been a White candidate with the same personality and positions, he would have been nothing, and he would have gone no where. (Just another bland candidate.)

In any case, I've criticized Democrats and their stupid destructive ideas all the way back to the founder of their Party. (Andrew Jackson. And if you will notice, I've been doing it since well before the election.) I am not going to stop because they thought they would be clever and pick a Black Democrat just to stifle criticism of their stupid ideas and deceitful tactics. You should take a lesson from me in this and look beyond a person's color. Pretending someone is being honest and forthright when they are not (Just because they are black) may be a benign form of racism, but it is still a form of racism. Judge a man by his deeds, not by his genes.

I feel like you might have misread me. I was saying that birthers are NOT racists.

"Never attribute malice (ie rasism) to what can be explained by stupidity."

I have not associated racism with birthers and, if you actually go back in time, you will see that I defend birthers against the frivolous charge of racism. From the Obama/Carter thread.

Really? They [Birthers] have to be racists? Not sure where that jump came from.

As an example:

Clearly, there are people in this country who insanely rave that Bush organized/faked an attack on the World Trade Centers on 9/11 just so he could go to war with Iraq. Does there insane raving make them racists? Obviously not, because Bush isn't black.

Clearly insane raving can exist without racism. The only real evidence that you have that people who question Obama's eligibility are racists is the color of his skin. Who does that make the racist again?

viewtopic.php?t=2885&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=135

[seedload]

From Gateway:

why are there any layers on this document at all?

Seems like a good question.

You should research it then.

[Diogenes]

Exactly why birthers are not necessarily racists.

Oh, but we must utilize every opportunity to imply that they are. Yeah, if that's your argument then your credibility is done as far as i'm concerned. God forbid that someone who is a minority can be criticized for lying and incompetence. THAT is Racism at work. As i've mentioned before, Obama was elected ONLY because he was black. Had he been a White candidate with the same personality and positions, he would have been nothing, and he would have gone no where. (Just another bland candidate.)

In any case, I've criticized Democrats and their stupid destructive ideas all the way back to the founder of their Party. (Andrew Jackson. And if you will notice, I've been doing it since well before the election.) I am not going to stop because they thought they would be clever and pick a Black Democrat just to stifle criticism of their stupid ideas and deceitful tactics. You should take a lesson from me in this and look beyond a person's color. Pretending someone is being honest and forthright when they are not (Just because they are black) may be a benign form of racism, but it is still a form of racism. Judge a man by his deeds, not by his genes.

I feel like you might have misread me. I was saying that birthers are NOT racists.

"Never attribute malice (ie rasism) to what can be explained by stupidity."

I have not associated racism with birthers and, if you actually go back in time, you will see that I defend birthers against the frivolous charge of racism. From the Obama/Carter thread.

One of my two oldest and dearest friends happens to be black. (The other is Half Okinawan.) We handled differences of race by acting like there weren't any. (differences) In other words, you didn't bring it up unless it was germane to the conversation.

I am aware that your comment was defending rather than accusatory, but from my perspective, it shouldn't have even been brought up unless the purpose was to imply.

Forget it. I will take you at your word that you weren't trying to imply it subtly. My apologies for so presuming.

[MSimon]

From Gateway:

why are there any layers on this document at all?

Seems like a good question.

You should research it then.

I prefer to let others do it and report back to me.

[Diogenes]

I suppose this would be a good time to explain what (if anything) I am intending to do with this thread.

I am intending to post information (from time to time) which calls into question the official narrative of the Obama Saga. Everything about the man's origins and life experience has a whiff of deceit about it, and as a result it is very difficult (for me and others) to accept anything which comes from Him and his cronies at face value. The only people looking into his past and his documents are "the crazies" and they keep finding interesting but not always compelling things.

A theory is no substitute for irrefutable facts. (Shout out to Science methodology.) As facts are continuously uncovered, they can fill in another piece of the puzzle, and perhaps one day a picture of objective reality can emerge, and it may in fact be what has been asserted all along. Or it may not. However, Barring some sort of bombshell piece of information, this issue is only of interest as an intellectual puzzle, and will have no impact on his election prospects.

In other words, just for curiosity and kicks.

Here is what is purported to be an excerpt from the book "Fugitive Days" written by Bill Ayers of Weather Underground and friend of Obama fame.

After the Baltimore fiasco, stealing ID was forbidden. Instead we began to build ID sets around documents as flimsy as a fishing license or a laminated card available in a Times Square novelty shop called “Official ID.” We soon figured out that the deepest and most foolproof ID had a government-issued Social Security card at its heart, and the best source of those were dead-baby birth certificates. I spent impious days over the next several months tramping through rural cemeteries in Iowa and Wisconsin, Illinois and North Dakota,searching for those sad little markers of people born between 1940 and 1950 who had died between 1945 and 1955. The numbers were surprising: two in one graveyard, a cluster of fourteen in another. Those poor souls had typically been issued birth certificates—available to us at any county courthouse for a couple of bucks and a simple form with information I could copy from the death announcement at the archive of the local paper—but they had never applied for a Social Security card.

Collecting those birth certificates became a small industry, and within a year we had over a hundred. For years I was a paper-made Joseph Brown, and then an Anthony Lee, remarkably durable identities. My on-paper official residences: a transient hotel in San Francisco and a warehouse in New York.

Playing games with birth certificates? Obama would never have any part of such an enterprise.

[Diogenes]

From Gateway:
Seems like a good question.

You should research it then.

I prefer to let others do it and report back to me.

Here you go. This appears to be a well written argument for forgery by a man who appears to have the credentials of an expert.


He sounds like a bit of a grandstanding nut, but he has some interesting points.

[MSimon]

I prefer to let others do it and report back to me.

Here you go. This appears to be a well written argument for forgery by a man who appears to have the credentials of an expert.

He sounds like a bit of a grandstanding nut, but he has some interesting points.

Expert? He made a fundamental beginners error:

If there are photos or other halftone graphics on the page, it may be scanned in as a grayscale which consists of 256 levels of gray going from 0 for white to 256 for black.

0 for white - 255 for black.