Nasa testing the Widom-Larsen LENR theory.

Giorgio · Post by **Giorgio** » Tue May 17, 2011 8:20 pm

Just as I say that the theory has not been under experimental verification, here come a news that corrects me:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/05/nasa-c ... heory.html

Looks like NASA is actually verifying if the WL theory has any merits.

For anyone interested we are discussing Widom-Larsen theory here:
viewtopic.php?p=61762

rcain · Post by **rcain** » Tue May 17, 2011 9:46 pm

fabulous news. i like the way they couch their brief - "...based upon the earlier Piantelli-Focardi work..." and "... simply trying to make sure there is a valid theoretical understanding... ". that bodes really well, whatever the outcome. maybe we shall eventually see after all.

todays date also (spooky

).

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Wed May 18, 2011 12:44 am

6 protons and 3 electrons combine it says in a graphic.

If this is done by accretion - maybe.

If they have to come together all at once - NBL.

NBL - is a British term of art - ask Chris.

D Tibbets · Post by **D Tibbets** » Wed May 18, 2011 2:42 am

If electron capture by a proton, mediated by the weak force works on a tabletop at a few hundred degrees C, and produces copious heat as per the Rossi claim, then how do we exist. This is the first step in the Sun's p-p fusion chain., and is exceedingly rare. , even at ~ 15 million degrees. The Sun contains trace amounts of nickel (actually probably many trillions of tons in the core) and yet it doesn't burn up quickly, as would be suggested by significant fusion rates in relatively low density and temperature conditions.

And, before a Goldilocks excuse is used- 'the temperature has to be within a narrow range', think about the evolution of the Sun. It started as a cold interstellar gas, accreted and gradually heated up, At some point it would have passed through similar temperature and/ or pressure characteristics as the Rossi reactor. If there was significant fusion at that stage the Sun would not have contracted further due to the thermal expansion balancing the gravitational attraction.
For that matter consider Jupiter, or even Uranus, or the today.

It must be due to some secret catalyst as Rossi discovered , even though he is not a trained physics or chemistry expert.....

Dan Tibbets

Axil · Post by **Axil** » Wed May 18, 2011 5:39 am

Piantelli does not claim that the Widom-Larsen theory is a valid explanation of the goings on inside his system. How can testing the Pintelli system against the predictions of Widom-Larsen theory be considered an experimental verification?

tomclarke · Post by **tomclarke** » Wed May 18, 2011 6:15 am

Axil wrote:Piantelli does not claim that the Widom-Larsen theory is a valid explanation of the goings on inside his system. How can testing the Pintelli system against the predictions of Widom-Larsen theory be considered an experimental verification?

If any of the expected behaviour from W-L is observed: fast neutron absorption, nulear transmutation, then it is evidence, and the conditions under which they happen may be interesting and point to something like W-L.

It is essentially impossible to disprove any CF theory - since the conditions under which phenomena claim to exist are too ill-defined.

Best wishes, Tom

Giorgio · Post by **Giorgio** » Wed May 18, 2011 7:39 am

D Tibbets wrote:If electron capture by a proton, mediated by the weak force works on a tabletop at a few hundred degrees C, and produces copious heat as per the Rossi claim, then how do we exist.

Heh, that's a good point too.

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Wed May 18, 2011 1:04 pm

Giorgio wrote:
D Tibbets wrote:If electron capture by a proton, mediated by the weak force works on a tabletop at a few hundred degrees C, and produces copious heat as per the Rossi claim, then how do we exist.
Heh, that's a good point too.

If the described process does exist then obviously we have evolved a means to survive it, cuz survive it we have. This "point" is useless.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Wed May 18, 2011 1:47 pm

KitemanSA wrote:
Giorgio wrote:
D Tibbets wrote:If electron capture by a proton, mediated by the weak force works on a tabletop at a few hundred degrees C, and produces copious heat as per the Rossi claim, then how do we exist.
Heh, that's a good point too.
If the described process does exist then obviously we have evolved a means to survive it, cuz survive it we have. This "point" is useless.

IF

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Wed May 18, 2011 1:54 pm

MSimon wrote: IF

Yup, that is what I said. Thank you for shouting out my point.
The point being that no one knows yet, so everything is "if".

Giorgio · Post by **Giorgio** » Wed May 18, 2011 2:01 pm

KitemanSA wrote:
Giorgio wrote:
D Tibbets wrote:If electron capture by a proton, mediated by the weak force works on a tabletop at a few hundred degrees C, and produces copious heat as per the Rossi claim, then how do we exist.
Heh, that's a good point too.
If the described process does exist then obviously we have evolved a means to survive it, cuz survive it we have. This "point" is useless.

As you stated no one can know this for sure, but, considering the type of process described, there are more chances that it does exist at all in respect to the one that nature evolved a mean to survive it.

I'll be happy to be surprised thought.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Wed May 18, 2011 2:47 pm

Well no one knows for sure if angels exist. But we still get unverified claims from time to time. Say 500 years on.

Cold Fusion will never die.

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Wed May 18, 2011 3:16 pm

Giorgio wrote:
D Tibbets wrote:If electron capture by a proton, mediated by the weak force works on a tabletop at a few hundred degrees C, and produces copious heat as per the Rossi claim, then how do we exist.
Heh, that's a good point too.

Maybe it is not cell phones killing off the bees. Maybe it is cold fusion...

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Wed May 18, 2011 4:49 pm

MSimon wrote:Well no one knows for sure if angels exist. But we still get unverified claims from time to time. Say 500 years on.

Cold Fusion will never die.

True, there will alway be folks, perhaps axil is one such, who will BELIEVE in CF, no matter what. Heck, there may be the counter part who would believe it is a scam even after the world is being powered by it.

But for most of us, the sceptics, a concerted and HONEST investigation would go far to ending the issue. Such an honest investigation would not include conclusions like "since plasma matter neutron absorbtion is always, experimentally, accompanied by prompt gamma emission, and this condensed matter unit does not emit said gammas, it doesn't work". Such statements, by themselves, are totally without basis.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Wed May 18, 2011 5:37 pm

KitemanSA wrote:
MSimon wrote:Well no one knows for sure if angels exist. But we still get unverified claims from time to time. Say 500 years on.

Cold Fusion will never die.
True, there will alway be folks, perhaps axil is one such, who will BELIEVE in CF, no matter what. Heck, there may be the counter part who would believe it is a scam even after the world is being powered by it.

But for most of us, the sceptics, a concerted and HONEST investigation would go far to ending the issue. Such an honest investigation would not include conclusions like "since plasma matter neutron absorbtion is always, experimentally, accompanied by prompt gamma emission, and this condensed matter unit does not emit said gammas, it doesn't work". Such statements, by themselves, are totally without basis.

Well yes. But given current experience that is a rather extraordinary claim. Where is the extraordinary evidence?

Under current experience no radiation = no nuclear reaction.

Which says that what we are "seeing" is most likely chemical or experimental error.