A picture is worth a thousand words.

[Ivy Matt]

As far as i'm concerned, that document is bread and circuses, even if it's real.

You know, I came to that conclusion long before Obama released it. But I'm not officially running for president, like Trump is.

[MSimon]

I'm just going to lay it out.

What usually follows is the burial.

BTW all this speculation was covered in massive detail when the picture came out during the campaign season.

If you want to have a better insight into his election chances, who his mother was screwing is not high on the list.

Following gasoline prices and the jobless numbers will give you better results.

Not concerned with the election. Was concerned with whether or not we had a legitimate President.

Well to test that theory - does the military follow his orders? Has he appointed people to positions?

I'd say he was legit enough.

And 10 pages - so far?

[Diogenes]

What usually follows is the burial.

BTW all this speculation was covered in massive detail when the picture came out during the campaign season.

If you want to have a better insight into his election chances, who his mother was screwing is not high on the list.

Following gasoline prices and the jobless numbers will give you better results.

Not concerned with the election. Was concerned with whether or not we had a legitimate President.

Well to test that theory - does the military follow his orders? Has he appointed people to positions?

I'd say he was legit enough.

And 10 pages - so far?

A test that an endless string of banana republic dictators could pass. I had hoped that this nation would require a higher standard, such as the correct application of our governing document.

I always argue that might does not make right, though I am constantly presented with examples of where it does.

As for the 10 pages, a lot of it is just filler without any real evidentiary value. I still have more bits and pieces of evidence, and I will continue to present them from time to time. If nothing else it gives me good practice. I think at some point I may compile it into an easy to read and understand format.



Proof of Obama Sr.'s age which for some reason he couldn't remember for the birth certificate.

[MSimon]

A test that an endless string of banana republic dictators could pass.

In the real world it is the only test that counts.

When did you become a utopian?

[Diogenes]

A test that an endless string of banana republic dictators could pass.

In the real world it is the only test that counts.

When did you become a utopian?

I'm a cynic, trying not to be one.

[MSimon]

A test that an endless string of banana republic dictators could pass.

In the real world it is the only test that counts.

When did you become a utopian?

I'm a cynic, trying not to be one.

At the root of cynicism is the reference frame you compare the current situation to. The ideal world. Thus deep down a core of cynicism implies utopianism.

The ideal world of which you dream requires process to get from here to there.

What reforms (not already in process or undertaken) would you suggest?

[Diogenes]

In the real world it is the only test that counts.

When did you become a utopian?

I'm a cynic, trying not to be one.

At the root of cynicism is the reference frame you compare the current situation to. The ideal world. Thus deep down a core of cynicism implies utopianism.

The ideal world of which you dream requires process to get from here to there.

What reforms (not already in process or undertaken) would you suggest?

Fidelity to the founder's vision. The rule of law, not men. A lot of people feel this way, unfortunately there are not enough of them. Perhaps eventually.

[seedload]

I still have more bits and pieces of evidence, and I will continue to present them from time to time.

"Evidence" of what?!?

Your last piece of "evidence" points to the fact that Sr was not at the birth, mommy didn't know his age exactly, and mommy gave the wrong age at the time that Sr's info was recorded on the birth certificate. It is "evidence" that the birth certificate is legit.

Is that what you are trying to prove? That the birth certificate is legit?

Or, are you trying to prove that Barack Sr. is not the father?

If that is the case, then why are you arguing the validity of the birth certificate? You don't need a fake birth certificate to argue that Frank Davis is the daddy. In fact, as you argue, the invalid age on the BC is evidence that daddy wasn't at the birth, making him less likely to be the daddy. For the commie daddy argument, the validity of the certificate helps you.

So, why are you continuing to post pictures of the BC to document that it is fake? I am so darn confused.

What I believe is that the argument has gotten away from you. At this point you are arguing all things at once in the hopes that something sticks. You have said yourself that something is wrong, something must be up, but you don't know what that something is.

At some point you should take a breath, think it through, and decide what you believe. Because, right now, your arguments appear only as a disorganized flow of unyielding consciousness.


Have you considered the possibility that:

1) When his legitimacy was first questioned, he requested a copy of his birth certificate from Hawaii and was issued the short form - a computer generated certified copy - the only form that Hawaii currently issues. This was evidence enough for those concerned - Hillary and McCain camps.

2) When the continued conspiracy theories escalated to the point of Trump becoming involved, he requested a copy of the original document. Hawaii, despite not issuing these copies for 10 years, complied due to the unique circumstances of the request.

3) That is the whole story.


Heck, I don't even like the guy.

[seedload]

Fidelity to the founder's vision. The rule of law, not men. A lot of people feel this way, unfortunately there are not enough of them. Perhaps eventually.

The rule of law was the 'short form' certified birth certificate.

The rule of men says that it is not enough, demands more, and when provided with more, demands more still.

[Diogenes]

I still have more bits and pieces of evidence, and I will continue to present them from time to time.

"Evidence" of what?!?

Your last piece of "evidence" points to the fact that Sr was not at the birth, mommy didn't know his age exactly, and mommy gave the wrong age at the time that Sr's info was recorded on the birth certificate. It is "evidence" that the birth certificate is legit.

Is that what you are trying to prove? That the birth certificate is legit?

I'm trying to prove or ascertain several things. The birth certificate might be absolutely correct in it's data, or it could be modified. Even modified I believe certain things would not be permitted to change, even by Hawaii's weird birth certificate laws. Among them, The Doctor's signature, Date of registration, etc. Other things are certainly changeable, such as the name of the father.

Why would I wonder? In Stanley Ann's divorce records there is a missing document that Hawaii refuses to release. It is speculated that it is Barack's birth certificate, or an order from the Judge regarding it.

Or, are you trying to prove that Barack Sr. is not the father?

If that is the case, then why are you arguing the validity of the birth certificate? You don't need a fake birth certificate to argue that Frank Davis is the daddy. In fact, as you argue, the invalid age on the BC is evidence that daddy wasn't at the birth, making him less likely to be the daddy. For the commie daddy argument, the validity of the certificate helps you.

I believe certain things can be amended on a birth certificate and certain things cannot. I think the Hawaiian legal system will allow certain changes, but not allow others. I also think the Hawaiian legal system will do everything in it's power to cover up any evidence that a birth certificate has been modified, but they are still required to affirm the truth if they know it. This is why I take such issue with "weasel words." They give the issuing authority the ability to produce modified documents without asserting something which is provably not true. (Meaning you can't catch them lying if they never SAY it's "original.")

Anyway, it looks like you conceded my point that Barack Sr. was not likely present at the birth of his supposed child. It was around 7 in the evening, it is not likely he had an excuse to be elsewhere. That was what I was going for with Barack Sr's document.

[
So, why are you continuing to post pictures of the BC to document that it is fake? I am so darn confused.

Because it got brought up.

[
What I believe is that the argument has gotten away from you. At this point you are arguing all things at once in the hopes that something sticks. You have said yourself that something is wrong, something must be up, but you don't know what that something is.

At some point you should take a breath, think it through, and decide what you believe. Because, right now, your arguments appear only as a disorganized flow of unyielding consciousness.

You mean when other people get involved it gets messy? Yeah, I know. What thread on this site doesn't get messy eventually?

Have you considered the possibility that:

1) When his legitimacy was first questioned, he requested a copy of his birth certificate from Hawaii and was issued the short form - a computer generated certified copy - the only form that Hawaii currently issues. This was evidence enough for those concerned - Hillary and McCain camps.

2) When the continued conspiracy theories escalated to the point of Trump becoming involved, he requested a copy of the original document. Hawaii, despite not issuing these copies for 10 years, complied due to the unique circumstances of the request.

3) That is the whole story.


Heck, I don't even like the guy.

You put your finger on one aspect of this that drives the issue in many people's minds. Why the H3LL should Hawaii be allowed to dictate terms? Since when does Article II bow to Hawaii? The very idea that one State's policies and procedures can be used as an excuse to deny Americans the right to know their leader's credentials is offensive to myself and others.


As for McCain and Hillary, perhaps they thought making a stink about it was only going to lose them votes. In the Primary, Hillary would have alienated a large chunk of her needed black constituency because they would have regarded his being disqualified as a result of this as a low blow.

McCain had his own problems. A lot of people take that "born on the soil" thing seriously. People say he was born in a Military Hospital, but I've seen at least one article which says he was born off base in a civilian hospital in Panama. (Foreign Soil you know.) Link.

Not something I would make a fuss about if I had this particular problem. The Opposition's next move would be "Well You're not qualified either! "
Any other Republican wouldn't have had this problem.

[Diogenes]

Fidelity to the founder's vision. The rule of law, not men. A lot of people feel this way, unfortunately there are not enough of them. Perhaps eventually.

The rule of law was the 'short form' certified birth certificate.

The rule of men says that it is not enough, demands more, and when provided with more, demands more still.

The Highest law in the land demands proof, and it doesn't make exceptions for the procedures of some state bureaucrat.


Nancy Pelosi signed affidavit's testifying to the eligibility of a man without the slightest shred of proof other than his word. (He hadn't even released the short form when her letters went out to each state's election officials.)


"Take my word for it" doesn't wash with me, and it shouldn't wash with ANY American.

[D Tibbets]

................

The Highest law in the land demands proof, and it doesn't make exceptions for the procedures of some state bureaucrat.


Nancy Pelosi signed affidavit's testifying to the eligibility of a man without the slightest shred of proof other than his word. (He hadn't even released the short form when her letters went out to each state's election officials.)


"Take my word for it" doesn't wash with me, and it shouldn't wash with ANY American.

several points I take from your recent posts. You think Nancy Pilosi had something to do with Obamas's certification process. Meaningless, even if she did send a lette It has nothing to do with the rule of law you mentioned. The release of the short form birth cirtificate satisfied the 'rule of law' requirements.

It sounds, also like you are also argueing against State Rights, at least when it is inconvenient to your viewpoint.

And, finally, Your last statement is essentially, 'Take my word for it' doesn'tt wash with you, and yet that is precisely what you are demanding that we do concerning your position.

Dan Tibbets

[Diogenes]

They couldn't even get the "Official" rubber stamp right.

Obama's stamp.




stamp on the March 15, 2011, birth certificate copy


What does this mean? "The" is spelled correctly on March 15, 2011, but by April 25th, it is either spelled incorrectly or it has been replaced with a new term. (Presumably a file format.) Did they break out a NEW rubber stamp for the special occasion of Obama's birth record? You would have thought they would have made sure it was spelled correctly.

I can't wait to see if the next long form birth certificate contains the "the" or "txe" designation. Wouldn't it be funny if Obama's is the only one?

[bcglorf]

They couldn't even get the "Official" rubber stamp right.

Obama's stamp.




stamp on the March 15, 2011, birth certificate copy


What does this mean? "The" is spelled correctly on March 15, 2011, but by April 25th, it is either spelled incorrectly or it has been replaced with a new term. (Presumably a file format.) Did they break out a NEW rubber stamp for the special occasion of Obama's birth record? You would have thought they would have made sure it was spelled correctly.

I can't wait to see if the next long form birth certificate contains the "the" or "txe" designation. Wouldn't it be funny if Obama's is the only one?

Progress!!!!!

So I take this as you admission that valid long form birth certificates CAN be printed on green security paper?

[Diogenes]

They couldn't even get the "Official" rubber stamp right.

Obama's stamp.




stamp on the March 15, 2011, birth certificate copy


What does this mean? "The" is spelled correctly on March 15, 2011, but by April 25th, it is either spelled incorrectly or it has been replaced with a new term. (Presumably a file format.) Did they break out a NEW rubber stamp for the special occasion of Obama's birth record? You would have thought they would have made sure it was spelled correctly.

I can't wait to see if the next long form birth certificate contains the "the" or "txe" designation. Wouldn't it be funny if Obama's is the only one?

Progress!!!!!

So I take this as you admission that valid long form birth certificates CAN be printed on green security paper?

Uh, you'll have to help me with this conclusion jump. How do you get from "The stamp looks peculiar and not like another stamp they used just 45 days earlier" to "This proves that the document is valid!"

I'm not able to follow you reasoning on this....

Oh, wait. I get it. You are completely ignoring my point to focus on the fact that someone else got a long form printed on Security paper. (and we don't even know the time period it was originally issued from.)

Yeah, whatever. Hawaii can declare that an original long form can be printed on the front cover of a "Lucky Charms" cereal box, if they want to. They can assert anything they want, but that doesn't make it true. If the original wasn't printed on green hash paper, then it is not an actual copy, it is just the information contained in the (probably amended) records they wish to show us, printed out on new paper.

Reminds me of What Abraham Lincoln said in a trial once. He addressed a witness: "Suppose you call a tail a leg. How many legs would a sheep have? " The witness thought for a moment and said "5." Abraham Lincoln said "No, only 4. Just because you call a tail a leg, doesn't make it so."