10KW LENR Demonstrator?

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

Maui wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:Hey, I'm in the "Yawn and ho-hum." group.
I'm trying to figure out why members of the LENR "Yawn and ho-hum" group are hanging out here.
Cuz it is fun watching the "all het up" groups, pro and con, natter about!

And hey, the technology is potentially interesting once real data is available. I'm "Waiting for Data". Same can be said re Polywell, room temp SC, "reactionless drive" equivalents... This is a fun place when folks are civil. And I love bursting ego-bubbles! :evil: :roll:

Kahuna
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Post by Kahuna »

I tried to get a bit more of a reading from Rossi on the 11% in the E-Cat ash. Here is the exchange:
Bill C

April 9th, 2011 at 8:51 AM

Andrea,

Congrats on your great progress on this very important work and best wishes as you proceed with the Athens project. I am very excited overall and very interested in the forthcoming announcement of you major U.S. Client.

A couple of questions.

(1) I’m curious why you chose stainless steel for the reactor body when it has such low thermal conductivity (7-26) as compared with other options; say copper at 200+?

(2) Also, all the reports (and patent application) mention the transmutation of Ni to Cu as a result of the E-Cat process, yet in the March 29th demonstration, slightly more Iron than copper was observed. Is the Iron also the result of a transmutation, the result of impurities in the Ni powder (fuel) or some other process?
Again, best wishes going forward.

Bill C


Andrea Rossi

April 9th, 2011 at 10:06 AM

Dear Mr Bill Conley:

Conductivity is not an issue, since the system after a while goes in thermal equilibrium and stays there 24 hours per day. It takes just some tens of minutes nore to get the equilibrium, but it is not relevant. The reason of the choice of the AISI 316 L is chemical.

My idea is that Fe comes from the steel by a sort of a sputtering effect.Warmest Regards,

A.R.

Axil
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Post by Axil »

316L stainless steel has 18% chromium and 65% iron more or less. If the process was a mechanical based sputtering process then 2.7 % chromium contamination should have been found in the ash and this chromium would have still been alloyed with the iron.

What could have purified the chromium from the iron?

It still does not add up!

Giorgio
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Post by Giorgio »

Axil wrote:It still does not add up!
That's not the only point that does not add up in this story, nor the most important one.

Axil
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Post by Axil »

Ivy Matt wrote:The patent is pretty interesting, if not always intelligible in English. The Italian patent can be found here, for those who read Italian.

This part caught my attention:
The present inventor, moreover, has also accurately studies the following related patents: US-6,236,225, US-5,122,054, US-H466, US-4,014,168, US-5,552,155, US-5,195,157, US-4,782,303, US-4,341,730, US-A-20010024789.
So, having nothing better to do...

"Method of testing the gate oxide in integrated DMOS power transistors and integrated device comprising a DMOS power transistor"

"Device for stopping a radiant burner automatically in the event of ignition"

"Hall effect device assembly"

"Electrical technique"

"Fusogenic lipsomes and methods for making and using same"

"Optical fibre splicing"

"Current guiding system"

"Beam dancer fusion device"

"Methods for generating catalytic proteins"

Someone with more scientific expertise than I will have to figure out how these patents relate to each other and to the claims in Mr. Rossi's patent. I will note, however, that all of the patents contain the word "fusion" or, in one case, "fuze".

EDIT: Edited to add working links.


Reference:

“Iron oxide-based nanomagnets in nanomedicine: fabrication and applications”

http://www.nano-reviews.net/index.php/n ... /4883/5440

The some of the patents listed in the Rossi patent have a theme of organic synthesis of organic compatible catalysts and their testing for effectiveness.

Iron oxide nanoparticles are iron oxide particles with diameters between about 1 and 100 nanometers. The two main forms are magnetite (Fe3O4) and its oxidized form maghemite (Fe2O3). They have attracted extensive interest due to their superparamagnetic properties and their potential applications in many fields (although Cu, Co and Ni are also highly magnetic materials, they are toxic and easily oxidized).

Applications of iron oxide nanoparticles include terabit magnetic storage devices, catalysis, sensors, and high-sensitivity biomolecular magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) for medical diagnosis and therapeutics. These applications require coating of the nanoparticles by agents such as long-chain fatty acids, alkyl-substituted amines and diols.

Rossi may have been interested in the organic fabrication of Iron oxide nanoparticles and subsiquent testing with the intent at selecting particles with superparamagnetic properties.

This superparamagnetic behavior of iron oxide nanoparticles can be attributed to their size. When the size gets small enough (<20 nm), thermal fluctuations can change the direction of magnetization of the entire crystal. A material with many such crystals behaves like a paramagnet, except that the moments of entire crystals are fluctuating instead of individual atoms.

After fabrication, certain Iron oxide nanoparticles will be magnetic and others won’t. A selection mechanism based on magnetic activity can pick out the required magnetically active particles from the ones that aren’t.


If and what type of Iron oxide nanoparticles magnetization behavior that the Rossi reaction requires is unknown. But it looks like Rossi is interested in this type of particle and it behavior.

In detail, ferromagnetic (form permanent magnets) and ferrimagnetic (Ferrimagnetic materials are like ferromagnets in that they hold a spontaneous magnetization below the Curie temperature) materials become disordered and lose their magnetization beyond the Curie temperature TC and antiferromagnetic materials lose their magnetization beyond the Néel temperature TN. Magnetite is ferrimagnetic at room temperature and has a Curie temperature of 577C. (but its Curie temperature is hard to determine). Both magnetite and maghemite nanoparticles are superparamagnetic at room temperature.

IF maghemite (Fe2O3) is used in the Rossi process, and if the Rossi reaction depends on the magnetic behavior of Iron oxide nanoparticles, running the reactor beyond their Curie temperature (577C) might burn the nano-catalyst out. Or on the plus side, it could gradually stop a run-away meltdown reaction.

Even through "Current guiding system" shows an interest in magnetic properties of materials, and the "Hall effect device assembly" reveals a need to trigger processes based on magnetic properties, the nanoparticle screening and selection criteria may not involve magnetic properties but some other of its physical characteristics. Size, shape, charge, chemical composition are all possible as selection criteria.

The fact that Rossi is interested in organic synthesis methods leads credence to the theory that Iron (being non-toxic and commonly fabricated using organic processes) is the secret additive.

"Fusogenic lipsomes and methods for making and using same" indicates Rossi is interested in building a core and shell nanoparticle by using layered lipids:
Liposomes can be loaded with bioactive agents (meaning IRON) passively, that is, by solubilizing the molecule in the medium in which the liposomes are formed, in the case of water-soluble agents, or adding lipid-soluble agents to the lipid solutions from which the liposomes are made. Ionizable bioactive agents (meaning IRON) can also be loaded into liposomes by establishing an electrochemical potential gradient across the liposomal membrane and then adding the agent to the medium external to the liposome
BiLayer lipids means two layers…the inner layer carries nickel oxide and the outer layer of iron oxide.

Image

Lipid vesicles are formed when phospholipids such as lecithin are placed in water and consequently form one bilayer or a series of bilayers, each separated by water molecules, once enough energy is supplied. Liposomes can be created by sonicating phospholipids in water. Low shear rates create multilamellar liposomes, which have many layers like an onion.

Heating will remove the water and fat to leave a core and shell nanoparticle.

By the way, "Method of testing the gate oxide in integrated DMOS power transistors and integrated device comprising a DMOS power transistor" deals with testing oxides.

Giorgio
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Post by Giorgio »

@ Axil

This is a NEWS thread.

Please make your own thread in the general section to post your ideas about the working principle of the Rossi reactor and keep this thread clean for the actual news.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

The Forum Guideline wrote:This forum is for discussion of current events and news stories, {{emphasis added}}...
None-the-less it wouldn't be a bad idea to start a new topic over in general.

Giorgio
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Post by Giorgio »

I know the guidelines, but if we keep speculation separated from news I think we can make the whole thread more enjoyable for everyone.

chrismb
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Post by chrismb »

Axil wrote:
The present inventor, moreover, has also accurately studies the following related patents: US-6,236,225, US-5,122,054, US-H466, US-4,014,168, US-5,552,155, US-5,195,157, US-4,782,303, US-4,341,730, US-A-20010024789.
Rossi may have been interested in the organic fabrication of Iron oxide nanoparticles and subsiquent testing with the intent at selecting particles with superparamagnetic properties.
Looks more like he's been using a random number generator to help him write his patent, to me.

His US patent has appeared recently. I have been studying the responses of USPTO examiners for some years now, to better understand what makes them 'tick'. ...He's gonna get slaughtered! Image

Axil
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Post by Axil »

According to a Rossi-Focardy paper (p. 4 of 9), similar results have been obtained in the factory of EON in Bondeno (Ferrara, Italy) in a test performed with ENEL spa on June, 25th 2009; as well as in tests made in Bedford, New Hampshire (USA) in a lab of LTI with the presence of the U.S. Department of Energy (November 19 2009) and of the U.S. Department of Defense (November 20 2009).
In a demo of any new and/or obscure technology, the DOD reprehensive always is accompanied by a technical support staff from a defense contractor that has some exposure to that technology.

The contractor is tasked to produce an evaluation in report form of what has been observed and explains and evaluates the technology is terms that the DOD reprehensive can understand. This report may include an evaluation of the viability of the technology vis'-à-vis' existing and future DOD systems.


Since Lockheed Martin is one of the few surviving systems integrators left in the defense marketplace and the provider of the majority of current defense systems, the chances are good that observers from Lockheed Martin attended the U.S. Department of Defense demo on November 20 2009 and are intimately acquainted with it workings.


If the DOD is interested in introducing this new technology into its current and future systems, the organization that would do it is Lockheed Martin.


Nascent emerging high tech is usually introduced and used first in military systems. For example, light water reactors in its nuclear sub program, and jet transport.


(Boeing 707) - The prototype was conceived as a proof of concept aircraft for both military and civilian use: the United States Air Force was the first customer for the design, using it as the KC-135 Stratotanker midair refueling platform.



Lockheed Martin will provide Rossi with a knowledgeable partner to guide him through the US patent process, enable the US government to guide the application of cold fusion in the national defense and prepare it for future civilian applications, nurture and guide its development, and protect the Rossi technology from the inevitable attacks that will be mounted by entrenched vested energy interests both foreign and domestic which abound throughout energy sector. All this, while keeping the inner working of the Rossi reactor totally confidential under national security regulations.


As an astute business organization, Lockheed Martin will immediately setup a profit center to leverage eventual civilian applications that are sure to come.

Kahuna
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Post by Kahuna »

More Rossi E-Cat analysis/comments at Next Big Future including calculations on expected vs. observed Ni -> Cu transmutation.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/04/how-ca ... gfuture%29

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

Axil wrote: In a demo of any new and/or obscure technology, the DOD reprehensive ...
The DOD reprehensive? Demonstrating your prejudices are you? :lol:

ladajo
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Post by ladajo »

And why counldn't the Supporting "Experts" have come from BAE.
To be totally fair, BAE has a bigger history of doing stuff out of hide, then selling it, vice General Atomics, Lockheed, Boeing, and others who prefer Taxpayer Finance for research.
This in my opinion gives a greater depth to sustained inhouse expertise, vice transient.

chrismb
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Post by chrismb »

Kahuna wrote:More Rossi E-Cat analysis/comments at Next Big Future including calculations on expected vs. observed Ni -> Cu transmutation.
That's not a calculation. It is making numbers fit what someone wants to see. A 'calculation' is a numerical description of a process. No process is defined.

Axil
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Post by Axil »

KitemanSA wrote:
Axil wrote: In a demo of any new and/or obscure technology, the DOD reprehensive ...
The DOD reprehensive? Demonstrating your prejudices are you? :lol:
A few of my ego-bubbles have poped. Feel good?

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