So Dies Peak Oil

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

Moderators: tonybarry, MSimon

Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Post by Axil »

A technique called “biomass fast pyrolysis” rapidly heats organic material to about 950C. This process produces a synthetic fuel precursor feedstock called Syngas (from synthetic gas) in about one second or less. This transformation of biomass to fuel will occur four to five orders of magnitude faster than through the biological routes, permitting reactor systems that are several thousand times smaller. The higher the temperature of the pyrolysis reaction, the smaller the reactor required to support the reaction.

Molten Salt Oxidation Process (MSOP)

MSOP is an ecologically safe and sustainable method to convert organic matter including, wood, paper and paper processing sludge, crop waste, hard human waste, sewage, animal manure, packing and processing waste, animal fats and just about any other kinds of organic wastes you can think of into high quality fuel.

The MSOP process takes place in an all-closed reactor within a molten salt bath, in which all materials separate into synthetic gas, H2, and H20. End product of the reactor is either bio-gas or synthetic gas which can further be used to produce electricity, gasoline through gas-synthesis, bio diesel, bio gasoline A-95, LPG, and other energy products.

Image


MSOP is most sustainable when the molten salt is heated using a small high temperature (950C) nuclear reactor with a thermal output of as little as 10 megawatts.

The MOSP is a universal method allowing utilization of all types of organic waste featuring a single simple common interface. This process is extremely simple and is comprised of a minimal number of stages for preparation of syngas to the fuel formulation process.

The molten salt supports raw materials with high moisture content.

The optimal operating temperatures ranges of the molten salt are 900-950C. The molten salt heat transfer medium effectively, evenly and rapidly transfers heat onto organic compounds.

Since the process heat for this process ideally comes from nuclear power, it eliminates one of the big downsides of biofuel production; it does not deplete the soil of vital nutrients. The residual char and ash from the process is captured as a soil additive to replenish the soil producing the organic material. This also removes and sequesters additional CO2 from the air thereby mitigating global warming and at the same time makes the land more productive.

Under a cap and trade CO2 payment system, this carbon sequestration capability will afford an additional revenue stream.

Below, the high temperature syngas product is reformed into high quality fuel.

Image

An example application of the MOSP is illustrated as a Material Balance Diagram below:

Image


Until the West deigns to develop a small high temperature nuclear reactor with a process heat output of 950C, such a reactor will be available from India sometime after 2014. This reactor is called the Compact High Temperature Reactor (CHTR) and is being designed and built in India.

The MSOP process can be a leading application of this type of reactor.

KitemanSA
Posts: 6188
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Re: Sunshine States...

Post by KitemanSA »

IntLibber wrote: China wont be able to use this to be a domestic producer, not unless these bacteria can live in salt water. China is already in a water starved situation, with industry fighting with agriculture over limited water supply.
The Origian Article wrote:The Joule technology requires no “feedstock,” no corn, no wood, no garbage, no algae. Aside from hungry, gene-altered micro-organisms, it requires only carbon dioxide and sunshine to manufacture crude. And water: whether fresh, brackish or salt. {emphasis added}

Tom Ligon
Posts: 1871
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:23 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Contact:

Post by Tom Ligon »

Here's some data on the productivity of algae.

http://www.aquatext.com/tables/algaegrwth.htm

Nannochlorois oculata is among the more productive, capable of more than one division per day in 30 C water. That is essentially a doubling of the number of cells in a day, and presumably also of the biomass. That's so incredibly more than crops as to not even be in the same ballpark.

If you think that is fast, try some species of bacteria, which can divide every 20 minutes or so. I once ran a calculation of the volume increase of bacteria at one generation per hour, starting with one cell half a micron across. Try that calculation yourself and run it for three weeks. Then be thankful nature actually applies limits. IIRC, the rate of expansion in three weeks is relativistic and the ball is way bigger than the diameter of Earth's orbit.

Typically the fast growers are not the lipid producers, so if your goal is to make oil you may be more limited, but with genetic modification this may not hold. The central claim of Joule is still the question ... it is not a matter of algae growth being a reasonable route for biomass production, but rather has Joule really come up with a great strain, and will anybody else top them. The exact numbers are vital for any business plan.

I think, in time, success is inevitable. Before I fork over my investment dollar on any specific claim, I want hard data and to know the competition's numbers.

KitemanSA
Posts: 6188
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Post by KitemanSA »

Tom Ligon wrote: I think, in time, success is inevitable. Before I fork over my investment dollar on any specific claim, I want hard data and to know the competition's numbers.
By which time the return on investment will be about 4%. No risk, no glory! :D :D

Tom Ligon
Posts: 1871
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:23 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Contact:

Post by Tom Ligon »

The interesting thing about fuel from biomass also applies to the Polywell. The exciting thing is not just the potential to make money selling the energy, it is what you can do with the energy.

Would making five trillion dollars a year selling energy be a great thing? Sure ... I could get by on that. But that energy would be used to create far more wealth than that. The step beyond cranking out biofuels is to exploit them, and that is an even bigger opportunity.

The same can be said for any economically competitive biomass strategy. If it turns out to provide liquid fuel in sufficient quantities and at a price that can replace petroleum, it will enable wonderful things. If it falls short, it may wind up as a footnote in energy history.

But even then, the technology might lead to producing raw materials for other branches of industry, or producing food. Even as a polishing strategy for tertiary sewage treatment it may be worthwhile.

I'm a fusion enthusiast, but my first degree is in biology. Fusion would be big, but if you don't understand the incredible potential of genetic engineering, and its close cousin molecular engineering, for both good and bad, you're not paying attention. These will turn out to be the most potent technologies mankind has ever dared dream up. Energy is just energy. Mastery of genetic engineering and the ability to manipulate materials in the way cells do is godlike power.

Betruger
Posts: 2336
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 11:54 am

Post by Betruger »

Godlike for 21st century man, anyway.

Grumalg
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:11 pm

Post by Grumalg »

An interesting bit of information about Joule's approach was published in the May/June issue of Technology Review.

Here's the part I find real interesting:
http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/25077/

Joule's bioengineers have equipped their microörganisms with a genetic switch that limits growth. The scientists allow them to multiply for only a couple of days before flipping that switch to divert the organisms' energy from growth into fuel production. While other companies try to grow as much biomass as possible, Afeyan says, "I want to make as little biomass as I can."

IntLibber
Posts: 747
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:28 pm

Post by IntLibber »

FYI: anybody thinking any biofuel plant can get rich on trading carbon credits is not paying attention. Since the collapse of the Copenhagen talks and the release of the climategate emails from CRU, carbon credit trading markets have seen these credits tank in value so they are around or less than one cent per ton of emissions.

Tom Ligon
Posts: 1871
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:23 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Contact:

Post by Tom Ligon »

Frankly, I would not want biofuels to succeed or fail on the basis of carbon credits. I would want them to succeed or fail on the basis of sound economics.

At best, biofuels are carbon neutral. They provide a means of storing solar energy and available CO2 and converting it to a convenient fuel type, the carbon of which is released back into the environment. If one buys that release of CO2 from fossil sources is a problem (don't start an argument, I said "if one buys"), then biofuels offer an option for continuing to use combustion engines that happen to work splendidly witout that downside. However, I don't expect that to catch on if the resulting fuel is ten bucks a gallon. If it can make fuel oil at $2 a gallon, it won't need any flaky public policy crap. In the middle is a marketplace.

BTW, while I have never thought Gore's "carbon indulgences" were good policy, the present situation in carbon credits stems from a massive fraud where China was gaming the system. They were using a process that cranked out kilotons of a very damaging CFC as a byproduct, then selling the rights to destroy that CFC. They were making way more than they needed, just to sell the carbon credits. The whole shell game is so ripe for this sort of abuse it is laughable (you have to laugh or you will cry).

Betruger
Posts: 2336
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 11:54 am

Post by Betruger »


KitemanSA
Posts: 6188
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Post by KitemanSA »

Wide open swatches of the Pacific with a minor addition of the micro-nutrient iron is CHEAP. Closed cycle photobioreactors with short lived GM alea, not-so-much. What good is 5 times the productivity if it winds up costiung 500 times as much?

A relatively small part of the equatorial Pacific could provide all the liquid fuel projected to be needed by 2020, even at typical bio-conversion rates. I did the calc once. Maybe I can find it again.

passenger66
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:22 pm

Post by passenger66 »

To Axil, would the LFTR be able to produce the the high temps you mention (950C). According to
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/b ... ar-thorium
China is going to be building these about as soon as the date you provide for the Indian reactor.

KitemanSA
Posts: 6188
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Post by KitemanSA »

Wikipedia wrote:The US Aircraft Reactor Experiment (ARE) was a 2.5 MW thermal nuclear reactor ...and had a peak temperature of 860 °C. It operated for a 1000-hour cycle in 1954.
Back in 54. Seems probably that more modern materials would allow a higher temperature.

ladajo
Posts: 6266
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

Isn't the issue more so what you do with it after you have used it?
As I recall the aircraft engines back in the day pushed the envelope of materials science to take the heat transients and stresses. I think you are right in thinking that we could do better today. But I am unsure just how much better.

MSimon
Posts: 14335
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Post by MSimon »

Tom,

Blade Runner was always a favorite of mine. So much so that my kids bought me a DVD for the holidays.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Post Reply