Labor Unions and The Problem of "more"

[Jccarlton]

The "more" has run out:
http://www.realclearmarkets.com/article ... 98861.html

[UncleMatt]

Is that what you say to wealthy people when they want tax cuts that add to our deficit? That the money has run out?

[Jccarlton]

Is that what you say to wealthy people when they want tax cuts that add to our deficit? That the money has run out?

Tax cuts do not add to the deficit. Spending adds to the deficit. Spending of money you do not have. Tax cuts may cause revenue to fall or they may cause revenue to rise, but in the end it's how much you spend that matters. As to what I say to rich people, depending on who it is I usually just say "hi xxx." We may or may not discuss things like taxes. As for unionized companies, well I could shoot pictures of the carcasses of all those companies for a week non stop and not even leave my area. How many dead factories in your town?
If that is to hard to understand here's a handy little video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi2l0NilEBE

[MSimon]

Here is another video that Jccarlton posted on another thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y47jW2vfHWU

[UncleMatt]

Is that what you say to wealthy people when they want tax cuts that add to our deficit? That the money has run out?

Tax cuts do not add to the deficit. Spending adds to the deficit. Spending of money you do not have. Tax cuts may cause revenue to fall or they may cause revenue to rise, but in the end it's how much you spend that matters. As to what I say to rich people, depending on who it is I usually just say "hi xxx." We may or may not discuss things like taxes. As for unionized companies, well I could shoot pictures of the carcasses of all those companies for a week non stop and not even leave my area. How many dead factories in your town?
If that is to hard to understand here's a handy little video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi2l0NilEBE

Who was it that was the President of the Actors UNION for SEVEN TERMS? Your hero, Ronald Reagan...

The idea that unions are bad makes about as much sense as claiming tax cuts to the wealthy result in good paying, domestic job growth. SURE, sometimes tax cuts DO help employment (not lately though...), just like unions SOMETIMES cause problems (like they used to DECADES AGO!). But to claim that ALL unions EVERYWHERE are BAD, is just plain RETARDED!

If that is too hard for you to understand, then you are too babtized in the koolaid of your own politico/religious beliefs to be reasoned with.

[MSimon]

Unions are not bad. Look at what they have done to Chrysler, GM, and so many cities and states in the US. They are destroying government. What more could a libertarian ask for? Much better than any program for destroying government that I could have devised. And they got the consent of the governed too.

“The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” Margaret Thatcher

The money has run out. Good.

[Diogenes]

Is that what you say to wealthy people when they want tax cuts that add to our deficit? That the money has run out?

No, you say to the money grubbers who want to take other people's money away from them that they can't have it.

It's not the government's money! It doesn't belong to the government! It belongs to the people who earned it!

[Diogenes]

Is that what you say to wealthy people when they want tax cuts that add to our deficit? That the money has run out?

Tax cuts do not add to the deficit. Spending adds to the deficit. Spending of money you do not have. Tax cuts may cause revenue to fall or they may cause revenue to rise, but in the end it's how much you spend that matters. As to what I say to rich people, depending on who it is I usually just say "hi xxx." We may or may not discuss things like taxes. As for unionized companies, well I could shoot pictures of the carcasses of all those companies for a week non stop and not even leave my area. How many dead factories in your town?
If that is to hard to understand here's a handy little video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi2l0NilEBE

Who was it that was the President of the Actors UNION for SEVEN TERMS? Your hero, Ronald Reagan...

The idea that unions are bad makes about as much sense as claiming tax cuts to the wealthy result in good paying, domestic job growth. SURE, sometimes tax cuts DO help employment (not lately though...), just like unions SOMETIMES cause problems (like they used to DECADES AGO!). But to claim that ALL unions EVERYWHERE are BAD, is just plain RETARDED!

If that is too hard for you to understand, then you are too babtized in the koolaid of your own politico/religious beliefs to be reasoned with.

Private Unions are somewhat different from public sector unions. Public sector Unions can vote as a political block to steer government policy towards their benefit at the expense of everyone else.

Private Unions can steer their employer, but their employer doesn't have coercive power over others to force them to buy their product. You are forced to buy the government product.

[Jccarlton]

Is that what you say to wealthy people when they want tax cuts that add to our deficit? That the money has run out?

Tax cuts do not add to the deficit. Spending adds to the deficit. Spending of money you do not have. Tax cuts may cause revenue to fall or they may cause revenue to rise, but in the end it's how much you spend that matters. As to what I say to rich people, depending on who it is I usually just say "hi xxx." We may or may not discuss things like taxes. As for unionized companies, well I could shoot pictures of the carcasses of all those companies for a week non stop and not even leave my area. How many dead factories in your town?
If that is to hard to understand here's a handy little video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi2l0NilEBE

Who was it that was the President of the Actors UNION for SEVEN TERMS? Your hero, Ronald Reagan...

The idea that unions are bad makes about as much sense as claiming tax cuts to the wealthy result in good paying, domestic job growth. SURE, sometimes tax cuts DO help employment (not lately though...), just like unions SOMETIMES cause problems (like they used to DECADES AGO!). But to claim that ALL unions EVERYWHERE are BAD, is just plain RETARDED!

If that is too hard for you to understand, then you are too babtized in the koolaid of your own politico/religious beliefs to be reasoned with.

Why because I can observe what happens when union take over? Because I can look around my state and see the dead factories and job losses, that have been happening for my entire life. When I was young, the Naugatuck Valley was the brass center of the world, with dozens of companies making everything from hinges to buttons. How many brass factories are left, 0. The cities of Bridgeport and new haven once had thriving industrial centers centered on the firearms industry, all gone. I could go on, but it's just depressing. Has some of the lost industry been replaced, well yes. but the new companies don't have the union load to oppress them and can keep going in our high tax climate, though we just elected a true idiot for a governor, with real tax consequences. Can you show me a union that actually did something good, that didn't resort to violence to enforce it's demands, that wouldn't shut key industries at the worst possible time. Unions have an ugly record and the people that for the most part get hurt are their own members.

[UncleMatt]

Just saw a piece on CNN where they show the average American's pay is almost exactly the same as it was in 1988 (around $34k). AND thats not adjusted for inflation, so about half of the purchasing power of that measly $34K is gone to inflation.

Meanwhile, upper level incomes have gone up over 33%!!!! But unions are THE PROBLEM, eh koolaid drinkers?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[UncleMatt]

Is that what you say to wealthy people when they want tax cuts that add to our deficit? That the money has run out?

No, you say to the money grubbers who want to take other people's money away from them that they can't have it.

It's not the government's money! It doesn't belong to the government! It belongs to the people who earned it!

By employing your "logic" I can make the claim that private companies are doing things with MY MONEY that I don't want them to!!!

They simply MUST be "money grubbers" since they "take" my money, right? That must make them Da ebil debil!

CLUE: when you pay taxes, or the cost of a good or service, it ISN'T YOUR MONEY ANY MORE.

[Diogenes]

Is that what you say to wealthy people when they want tax cuts that add to our deficit? That the money has run out?

No, you say to the money grubbers who want to take other people's money away from them that they can't have it.

It's not the government's money! It doesn't belong to the government! It belongs to the people who earned it!

By employing your "logic" I can make the claim that private companies are doing things with MY MONEY that I don't want them to!!!

Then Don't give it to them! Geeze, is this rocket science for you or something?

The difference between private and public is that you can refuse to give private companies your money. You CANNOT refuse the government.

They simply MUST be "money grubbers" since they "take" my money, right? That must make them Da ebil debil!

A private entity that takes your money against your will is a thief. So is a public entity.

CLUE: when you pay taxes, or the cost of a good or service, it ISN'T YOUR MONEY ANY MORE.

You mean when a thief takes your money, it's no longer yours?

I disagree. If you have the power to beat the thief down, you can reclaim your money.

[MSimon]

AND thats not adjusted for inflation

So the government inflated away your money and yet you are a supporter of government to make things fair? They do make things fair. For themselves. At the point of a gun.

The Mafia is actually nicer. They actually understand that if they put you out of business the envelopes full of cash stop coming.

[JLawson]

AND thats not adjusted for inflation

So the government inflated away your money and yet you are a supporter of government to make things fair? They do make things fair. For themselves. At the point of a gun.

And in return, you get a lowest-common-denominator lifestyle. On the good side, you don't have to think for yourself - just let the government do that for you. On the bad side, you have no choices aside from what the government offers.

But if your primary concern is 'fairness', then you'll be happy... until you want something outside the norm. At which point you'll be beaten back into line with all the other proles.

Screw 'fairness', and the horse it rode in on.

And MSimon's right about the Mafia - they know the tale of the Golden Goose quite well.

[rjaypeters]

Yeah! Unions, composed of those greedy people! They've managed to raise their wage demands at the same rate as CEOs. Oh, wait, no, they haven't.

http://www.slate.com/id/2290510/pagenum/2

The relevant quote: "If a CEO can make a lot in the short-term, regardless of what happens in the long-term, then he would require superhuman integrity to care sincerely about the long-term."

And we know CEOs have superhuman integrity, right?

Example: I have been made aware of a company which is not doing well and the CEO has received a bonus more than double his annual six-figure salary. This same bonus is almost half the total for the company bonuses (for executives and managers because they haven't gotten raises for three years).

This company is losing money and they're giving bonuses?! And the CEO has the gall to take a bonus more than double his salary?! Clearly, union greed is the problem here. Oh, wait, no, this same company's unions have been making concessions and just got a three percent raise.

The really fun part is the bonuses were awarded because the rank-and-file got a three percent raise and the executives were envious. I bet the other executive's bonuses weren't as nice as 200%, but better than three percent of salary.

Those blasted unions! They should learn from their betters and demand even _more_ money!