Too Much Money In It

Discuss life, the universe, and everything with other members of this site. Get to know your fellow polywell enthusiasts.

Moderators: tonybarry, MSimon

choff
Posts: 2447
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:02 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by choff »

MSimon wrote:
I wonder if it ever occured to these intel drug smugglers that they're doing more harm than good?
Maybe Colby was having second thoughts. His death was somewhat unusual.

In any case they are not charged with fixing domestic policy. That is up to us.

The son of a friend of ours died from an opiate overdose about a week ago. Here in Rockford. Bastards.

And yet the antidote to heroin could be made available if we didn't have so many moral busybodies.

From 2006:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massac ... _proposed/

From 2008:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=17578955
I've mentioned this before, but why don't all of the US prison population serving time for drug related offences start a class action lawsuit against the government for selective prosecution. Namely, why should the poorest percentage of the population get arrested for drug crimes while the Intel types get a free pass.
There are probably a lot of ex DEA and Justice department current and former agents who would love to testify to that affect. Considering how difficult it is to change laws by election, this is probably the best way to change the system, though in which direction is hard to say.
CHoff

ladajo
Posts: 6267
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

MSimon wrote:
I wonder if it ever occured to these intel drug smugglers that they're doing more harm than good?
Maybe Colby was having second thoughts. His death was somewhat unusual.

In any case they are not charged with fixing domestic policy. That is up to us.

The son of a friend of ours died from an opiate overdose about a week ago. Here in Rockford. Bastards.

And yet the antidote to heroin could be made available if we didn't have so many moral busybodies.

From 2006:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massac ... _proposed/

From 2008:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=17578955
So would you say that your friend's son was a drug addict or had a drug habit?

Helius
Posts: 465
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:48 pm
Location: Syracuse, New York

No control of substance, no negative sanction.

Post by Helius »

You underestimate the foolishness out there.

For many people a sneeze would be an indicator to pop a Cipro. Personally, I like that antibiotics still work.

Usually, when an addict is "spiralling toward death" the utterly foolish decisions have already been made, and to make 'antidote' kits available may cost more lives than save.
That could only be, however, if they bought them.

Diogenes
Posts: 6976
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Post by Diogenes »

MSimon wrote:The Clipper Ship China Run was all about Americans delivering opium to China. The opiates were legal (and thus not very profitable) in America.
"When we sold the Heathen nations rum and opium in rolls,
And the Missionaries went along to save their sinful souls
."

The Old Clipper Days --Julian S. Cutler

http://www.ctrl.org/boodleboys/boddlesboys2.html
====

And yes the Drug War is one of my pet causes. I have studied it from every aspect - Legal, medical, social, sociological for over 40 year.

I don't see the point of spending $25 bn a year Federally to make it easier for children to get an illegal drug than a legal beer. I believe we could do that a lot cheaper. We could even make those drugs as hard for kids to get as beer.


But you keep repeating obvious fallacies. I keep shooting them down. You ignore my argument, and here we are again.

Beer costs $1.00 . Easily stolen from the parents fridge. Crack costs $20.00 , and the crack fiend will beat the piss out of you if you try to take it away from him/her. If a child DOES get some crack, it's probably an introductory offer by the pusher so he can get them hooked to turn tricks or steal. That is just a temporary condition because it is a market strategy.

Anyway, (the steady state condition) it is far easier for a child to get a beer than to get crack.


You may have studied the issue for 40 years, but It appears to me that you have such a bias in favoring your preferred answer that you simply cannot conceive of the opposition argument. I'm thinking at this point you are so self hypnotized, I don't think you can even SEE the opposition argument.

Now I like you quite a lot, but from my perspective this drug war stuff is for you an obsession like captain Ahab for the Whale. As I used to tell one of my dearest and oldest friends, "Yeah, there's racism in American, but with the Soviets pointing 20,000 + nuclear weapons at us, you can excuse me if the issue isn't the first, second, or third priority on my list of things to worry about." (This was some time ago.) :)

I can say to your credit that you DO put the greater threats facing us all (Financial collapse\Islamic militancy) ahead of your anti-drug war (25 billion is a rounding error on the real crisis.) crusade, so in that I commend you, and for what it's worth, i'd rather have Libertarians running the country than Liberals. Libertarians are just naive. Liberals are sinister.

Diogenes
Posts: 6976
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Post by Diogenes »

MSimon wrote:BTW if Drugs can bring down a country America should have been destroyed long ago by alcohol. One of the most dangerous psychoactive drugs (legal or illegal) on the market.

Oh, it's done serious damage, but fortunately it is not as addictive to everybody as it is to some. I know a man (a good friend) that simply cannot stop drinking. Were it not for his government check he would be a homeless wino. His bar tab is $1,000.00 per month. (Thanks taxpayers!)

Funny thing is, the same thing happened to most of his family. It appears to me that he and his family have some sort of genetic predisposition to alcohol abuse, while I know many more people that do not.

Change drugs to something like opium or crack, and your potential pool of addicts dramatically increases. Experience with early laudanum and other cocaine extracts is the reason the nation passed laws to outlaw them.

Diogenes
Posts: 6976
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: It doesn't help.

Post by Diogenes »

MSimon wrote:
Helius wrote:
MSimon wrote:BTW if Drugs can bring down a country America should have been destroyed long ago by alcohol. One of the most dangerous psychoactive drugs (legal or illegal) on the market.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0t0EW6z8a0
Strange. You and Neil seem to be on the same page.
He says a lot of great art goes down the drain. I've stood next to many a man side buy side facing the tiles above our respective porcelain `drains', stances shifting, where one of us finally says it: "<cough> Ya don't buy beer, you rent it."
And yet drug taking (alcohol included) has been the inspiration of quite a bit of art. But then I'm sort of a Jimmy Buffett fan.

This comment reminds me of the argument that we shouldn't allow abortions because some of the Children grow up to produce great music or art. (Beethoven is often cited as an example.)


A pretty weak argument even when it's on my side.

MSimon
Posts: 14335
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Post by MSimon »

ladajo wrote:
MSimon wrote:
I wonder if it ever occured to these intel drug smugglers that they're doing more harm than good?
Maybe Colby was having second thoughts. His death was somewhat unusual.

In any case they are not charged with fixing domestic policy. That is up to us.

The son of a friend of ours died from an opiate overdose about a week ago. Here in Rockford. Bastards.

And yet the antidote to heroin could be made available if we didn't have so many moral busybodies.

From 2006:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massac ... _proposed/

From 2008:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=17578955
So would you say that your friend's son was a drug addict or had a drug habit?
He was a schizophrenic and was self medicating. In fact my studies show that the vast majority of illegal drug users are self medicating. And self medication is now the medical protocol for illegal drug use. Ask your local hospital psychological intake nurse.

They are teaching it in medical colleges. A friend of mine was taking a course in 2002 and reported to me that that was what was being taught.

Sadly it is not being taught to the general population.

It is sad that after so much back and forth here on the subject you remain in the truest sense of the word - ignorant.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his livelihood depends on not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
Posts: 14335
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Post by MSimon »

Oh, it's done serious damage, but fortunately it is not as addictive to everybody as it is to some.
That is true of all drugs. And the same people addicted to alcohol tend in these days to be polydrug users.

The only drug for which addiction rates are much above 10% is tobacco where it runs in the 30% to 50% range.

Evidently (as usual) you appear to have avoided a study of the current literature on the subject. Not my fault. I have provided you copious links to it over the years. There is no known cure for willful ignorance.

And the cause of alcohol addiction is the same as the cause of addiction to most other drugs - genetics + trauma.

About 10% of the people who try heroin ever get addicted (as opposed to habituated). Current heroin (opiate) use rates in the population run around 2%. And the rate before heroin prohibition? Around 2%. We are spending a LOT of money and enriching criminals for no or negative (if you consider the added crime) results. A typical government program. Which you support. Moral socialism is expensive. And requires big government.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Diogenes
Posts: 6976
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Post by Diogenes »

MSimon wrote:
ladajo wrote:
MSimon wrote: Maybe Colby was having second thoughts. His death was somewhat unusual.

In any case they are not charged with fixing domestic policy. That is up to us.

The son of a friend of ours died from an opiate overdose about a week ago. Here in Rockford. Bastards.

And yet the antidote to heroin could be made available if we didn't have so many moral busybodies.

From 2006:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massac ... _proposed/

From 2008:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=17578955
So would you say that your friend's son was a drug addict or had a drug habit?
He was a schizophrenic and was self medicating. In fact my studies show that the vast majority of illegal drug users are self medicating. And self medication is now the medical protocol for illegal drug use. Ask your local hospital psychological intake nurse.

They are teaching it in medical colleges. A friend of mine was taking a course in 2002 and reported to me that that was what was being taught.

Sadly it is not being taught to the general population.

It is sad that after so much back and forth here on the subject you remain in the truest sense of the word - ignorant.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his livelihood depends on not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair


On this "self medicating" issue, I have a few points I would like to add. Since people already hate me, I might as well keep speaking plainly. Somebody has to be a grown up.


People "Self medicate" because from their perspective life sucks. Notwithstanding the fact that much of the "suckage" in life is the result of poor decisions, but not all, and for one reason or another humans will find themselves miserable. As being not unfamiliar with being miserable in life, I have had occasion to ponder the point, and have come to some tentative conclusions regarding the phenomenon.

I wondered why people commit suicide. What possible evolutionary benefit could there be had from suicide? I speculated as to how such an idea could be developed in mankind, and it occurred to me that it would be evolutionarily advantageous if useless excess population removed itself from the food supply during hard times.

And how would nature determine who in the population was useless and excess? Nature would use the distributed brainpower of the group to resolve the problem. Individuals would rate themselves, and sometimes the group would communicate clues. When an individual determined that they were not useful, and that their prospective future appeared bleak, they killed themselves for reasons of despair, and it had the effect of benefiting the larger group. In essence, nature would use individuals own minds against them. (Yeah, nature is a bitch. Nature also uses individuals own minds against them when it comes to mating. Timid (or inferior) males unknowingly advertise their timidity, allowing females to avoid them. e.g.)

Anyways, to bring this circle to a close, despairing people often turn to drugs because it gives them a temporary respite from the misery of their life. I've told lots of drug users that "that stuff is killing you", and many of them have told me that "No, it's the only thing keeping me alive."

What these people need is purpose, not plant toxins. The secret of happiness is a sense of purpose and fulfillment thereof.

Nature would have them die. Drug Advocates would have them "Self Medicate." I would have these people develop a sense of purpose and work towards the fulfillment of their lives, eschewing cheap diversions and holding on to something that makes their life worth living. For some, Religion is the answer, for others altruism, for some it is their children. (which I believe is natures most compelling purpose) Whatever it is, people need to find it and work to make their lives fulfilling.

ladajo
Posts: 6267
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

MSimon wrote:
ladajo wrote:
MSimon wrote: Maybe Colby was having second thoughts. His death was somewhat unusual.

In any case they are not charged with fixing domestic policy. That is up to us.

The son of a friend of ours died from an opiate overdose about a week ago. Here in Rockford. Bastards.

And yet the antidote to heroin could be made available if we didn't have so many moral busybodies.

From 2006:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massac ... _proposed/

From 2008:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=17578955
So would you say that your friend's son was a drug addict or had a drug habit?
He was a schizophrenic and was self medicating. In fact my studies show that the vast majority of illegal drug users are self medicating. And self medication is now the medical protocol for illegal drug use. Ask your local hospital psychological intake nurse.

They are teaching it in medical colleges. A friend of mine was taking a course in 2002 and reported to me that that was what was being taught.

Sadly it is not being taught to the general population.

It is sad that after so much back and forth here on the subject you remain in the truest sense of the word - ignorant.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his livelihood depends on not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair
Again, you did not answer the question.

I would say he was an Addict, and also be IAW the accepted NIH definition. And, by being an addict, that means that giving him more opiates you are driving him closer to self destruction, regardless of the source, a smiling corner pusher, or a smiling medical practitioner. Being an Addict also means that he will resist acknowledging he has an issue, and more than likely refuse counceling and treatment. Another question you have not ever answered, "What do you do with them when they refuse a treatment program?"
Another interesting point, is that NIH studies have seperated low impact drugs such as nicotine and alcohol into the typically Habitual category, with opiates and others into the Addictive category. I like how you infer that all drugs are merely Habitual, and thus safe, as well as that you proclaim the root issue is globally schizophrenia. So in your use of marijuana, are you basing that on your being schizophrenic? Or is that just for the alcohol you drink?

Your self proclaimed 40 year crusade to justify legalizing marijuana, so you can by it at CVS or grow it in your kitchen window without guilt is noble. An amusing observation is that it is sometimes clear when you are posting while high, and posting when not.
Maybe you should just stick to marijuana, and then you will only have to fight the lung cancer argumentists and second hand smokers as your foe.
Of course there are other studies that say the marijuana use impacts short term memory and judgemental ability, as well as has long term impacts after repeated use. Beh, what do they know right? You are a 40 year nationally proclaimed expert with substantial peer reviewed published research and panel chairing. I look forward to seeing you on Oprah again with your newest book.
Your arguments are self blinding, as others have noted. just for fun, why don't you try an exercise done by real scholars, and make a counter argument against yourself? Many a thesis has unwittingly reversed itself at this stage causing the author to change his own opinion. Of course it requires a measure of humility and objectivity.

MSimon
Posts: 14335
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Post by MSimon »

People "Self medicate" because from their perspective life sucks.
Evidently you think that being abused as a child with the resultant PTSD makes a person worthy of further abuse by the government if they self medicate for it. Unless they use one of the most dangerous drugs known to mankind - alcohol.

As you well don't know there is no cure at this time for PTSD. When there is no cure medical protocols indicate: keep the patient comfortable.

The most benign drugs known for the condition are cannabis and heroin (opiates).

If you really are interested in doing something about the problem the answer is: do something about child abuse - the #1 cause of PTSD in America.

You are an adult only in the sense that you are an adult psychopath with no compassion for the suffering of others.

What ever you think about the issue the medical community has come to a different conclusion. You are no longer arguing with me. You need to take it up with the medical community.

There was a time when I was a lone voice crying in the wilderness. Now I have the medical community on my side. Even the NIDA is coming around. They say that chronic drug use is caused by genetics and environmental factors. Which environmental factors are important they do not say. If you read the literature it becomes obvious that the main factor is trauma. In time I will get enough of the rest of the population on my side to change the laws. Then maybe we can do something about the crappy parenting that is at the root of the "problem".

“Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium” - “I prefer liberty with danger to peace with slavery”

"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." - Max Planck

My job is to make the new generations aware of the latest findings. For that you serve as a very useful foil.

==========

There was a time when the current illegal drugs were available over the counter and the nation did fine.

We're so much better people now. /s
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
Posts: 14335
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Post by MSimon »

I would say he was an Addict, and also be IAW the accepted NIH definition.
And what does "addict" mean in the context? Chronic self medication with unapproved drugs for a chronic medical problem.

I'm sure if we can get enough police on the medical problem it can be fixed. Unless as happened in alcohol prohibition the police and government become corrupted.

"The Latin American drug cartels have stretched their tentacles much deeper into our lives than most people believe. It's possible they are calling the shots at all levels of government." - William Colby, former CIA Director, 1995
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

ladajo
Posts: 6267
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

Hmm, let's see...

Choice "A"
Drug addiction is a state of periodic or chronic intoxication produced by
the repeated consumption of a drug (natural or synthetic).
Its characteristics include:
1) An overpowering desire or need (compulsion) to continue taking
the drug and to obtain it by any means;
2) A tendency to increase the dose;
3) A psychic (psychological) and generally a physical dependence
on the effects of the drug;
4) Detrimental effect on the individual and on society.

Or choice "B"...
Drug habituation (habit) is a condition resulting from the repeated
consumption of a drug. Its characteristics include:
1) A desire (but not a compulsion) to continue taking the drug
for the sense of improved well being which it engenders:
2) Little or no tendency to increase the dose;
3) Some degree of psychic dependence on the effect of the drug,
but absence of physical dependence and hence of an abstinence syndrome;
4) Detrimental effects, if any, primarily on the individual.

I think I'll go with "A".

It is a shame he may have been beaten as a child, and you are correct, legally giving him free acess to opiates is the best solution.
In the end, he will feel no pain. Maybe we shold give his parents opiates as well, so they can feel better as well. Self medication for all!

MSimon
Posts: 14335
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Post by MSimon »

Perhaps a little knowledge of the brain is in order.

There are receptors.

When the receptors are filled you can't get any "higher".

When the receptors are chronically filled the brain makes more.

Physiology accounts for several of your points. i.e. tolerance and increasing tolerance with use.

The work done by the NIDA is superior to the NIH. The NIH takes more of a layman's view. i.e. it is descriptive without looking at the underlying mechanisms. The NIDA looks at the science. Descriptions tell you nothing about the why.

Since addiction is in part genetic is there a police method for fixing that? Well in fact if you want to go far enough there is. Genocide.

The book "Drug Warriors and Their Prey" looks into that question. I review the book here:

How To Put An End To Drug Users

Now the surest way to insure the "rushes" so many users like is to make the supplies irregular. A period of high availability will increase the number of receptors. Cut off supplies for a while and the next availability causes a super rush as the empty receptors are filled.

Now we know how to wean people off drugs if their use is incidental - say for some medical procedure. It is called detox. The detox regime varies according to the drug with barbiturate detox being the most difficult and taking the longest time.

What we do not know how to do is cure the underlying PTSD that makes some users return to drug use. Well actually we do know how to cure. In many cases the body will cure itself over time as long as it is not retraumatized.

What do we know: with no treatment about 5% of heroin users will spontaneously quit in any given year. With treatment the number is still 5%. The indication from a medical perspective would be to let users use with pure drugs of known quantity of active ingredients until the underlying conditions decline sufficiently to require no further use. With every user supplied with an opiate antidote in case of a misjudgment.

Given that what else do we know? Rehab costs 1/7th what the criminal justice system costs for "treating" the problem. Of course even cheaper is doing nothing and letting nature heal the underlying problem.

We also have to accept that for some depending on genetics and the severity of the trauma life long use may be required. Despite what you have seen in the movies heroin is not an especially debilitating drug if you compare it to chronic alcohol use. It is much easier on the body than alcohol.

A look at the work of Dr. John Marks in England is instructive. Here is a newspaper account that should serve to give you some search terms to find out more.
In the first of a two-part series, Nick Davies argues that the disease and moral collapse associated with class A drugs is due to criminalisation, not the drugs themselves

To understand this war and to understand the problems of heroin in particular, you need to grasp one core fact. In the words of Professor Arnold Trebach, the veteran specialist in the study of illicit drugs: "Virtually every 'fact' testified to under oath by the medical and criminological experts in 1924 ... was unsupported by any sound evidence." Indeed, nearly all of it is now directly and entirely contradicted by plentiful research from all over the world. The first casualty of this war was truth and yet, 77 years later, the war continues, more vigorous than ever, arguably the longest-running conflict on earth.

Drugs and fear go hand in hand. The war against drugs is frightening - but not, in reality, for the reasons which are claimed by its generals. The untold truth about this war, which has now sucked in every country in the developed world, is that it creates the very problem which it claims to solve. The entire strategy is a hoax, with the same effect as an air force which bombs its own cities instead of its enemy's. You have to go back to the trenches of Flanders to find generals who have been so incompetent, so dishonest, so awesomely destructive towards those for whom they claim to care.
This is out of sequence but gives you some points to ponder:
The Swiss, for example, in 1997 reported on a three-year experiment in which they had prescribed heroin to 1,146 addicts in 18 locations. They found: "Individual health and social circumstances improved drastically ... The improvements in physical health which occurred during treatment with heroin proved to be stable over the course of one and a half years and in some cases continued to increase (in physical terms, this relates especially to general and nutritional status and injection- related skin diseases) ... In the psychiatric area, depressive states in particular continued to regress, as well as anxiety states and delusional disorders ... The mortality of untreated patients is markedly higher." They also reported dramatic improvements in the social stability of the addicts, including a steep fall in crime.

There are equally impressive results from similar projects in Holland and Luxembourg and Naples and, also, in Britain. In Liverpool, during the early 1990s, Dr John Marks used a special Home Office licence to prescribe heroin to addicts. Police reported a 96% reduction in acquisitive crime among a group of addict patients. Deaths from locally acquired HIV infection and drug-related overdoses fell to zero. But, under intense pressure from the government, the project was closed down. In its 10 years' work, not one of its patients had died. In the first two years after it was closed, 41 died.
The core point is that the death and sickness and moral collapse which are associated with class A drugs are, in truth, generally the result not of the drugs themselves but of the black market on which they are sold as a result of our strategy of prohibition. In comparison, the drugs themselves are safe, and we could turn around the epidemic of illness and death and crime if only we legalised them. However, it is a contemporary heresy to say this, and so the overwhelming evidence of this war's self-destructive futility is exiled from almost all public debate now, just as it was when those congressmen met.
Start with the allegation that heroin damages the minds and bodies of those who use it, and consider the biggest study of opiate use ever conducted, on 861 patients at Philadelphia General hospital in the 20s. It concluded that they suffered no physical harm of any kind. Their weight, skin condition and dental health were all unaffected. "There is no evidence of change in the circulatory, hepatic, renal or endocrine functions. When it is considered that some of these subjects had been addicted for at least five years, some of them for as long as 20 years, these negative observations are highly significant."
The confusion between the effect of the drug and the effect of the black market is exacerbated not only because of government policy but also because government statistics completely ignore this distinction, with the result that teams of researchers study drug policy, use compromised statistics and simply recycle the confusion, thus providing politicians with yet more false fuel for their fire.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
Posts: 14335
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Post by MSimon »

Once cannabis is legalized (coming soon to a State near you) we will start looking rationally at a the other drugs.

I believe Arizona is on a course to turn pot possession from a felony to a ticketing offense. Just the latest of the states to change policy.

Eventually we will have a science based policy rather than a fear based policy. Hillary did point out one of the obstacles: the agencies and politicians addicted to the money.

As Wm. Burroughs once said: Dealing is harder to quit than using.

And the politicians?
"The Latin American drug cartels have stretched their tentacles much deeper into our lives than most people believe. It's possible they are calling the shots at all levels of government." - William Colby, former CIA Director, 1995
Is prohibition providing enough positive results to be worth corrupting our police and government? The Guardian article has this to say:
"There is overwhelming evidence to show that the prohibition-based policy in this country since 1971 has not been effective in controlling the availability or use of proscribed drugs. If there is indeed a war against drugs, it is not being won ... Illegal drugs are freely available, their price is dropping and their use is growing. It seems fair to say that violation of the law is endemic, and the problem seems to be getting worse despite our best efforts."

Mr Shaw was able to point to a cascade of evidence to support his view: between 1987 and 1997, there had been a tenfold increase in the seizure of illicit drugs, and yet the supply on the streets was so strong that the price of these drugs had kept dropping; in 1970, only 15% of people had used an illegal drug, but by 1995, 45% had; in 1970, 9,000 people were convicted of a drugs offence but in 1995 94,000 were. The Home Office responded to the chief constable's report with complete silence: they refused even to acknowledge receiving it. Internal reports from the American Drugs Enforcement Agency confirm the chief constable's conclusion.
In the last 30 years the street price of heroin in America has dropped by a factor of 600 on an inflation/active ingredient basis. Capitalism in action.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Post Reply