Everyone Who Wants to Smoke Pot Is Already Smoking Pot

[Diogenes]

Congratulations. You just admitted to intentionally deluding yourself and others.

I admitted that humanity is deluded, and that one must deal with the reality that one finds. It is not something to be congratulated for, it is what it is.

[GIThruster]

Congratulations. You just admitted to intentionally deluding yourself and others.

not really. Slanting through use of emotional language though a rhetorical fallacy, does not negate the logic behind the argument "your children will become slaves." Almost all emotional appeals have at the heart a logical argument, even if in its elliptical form. Real logical fallacy doesn't occur until the emotional appeal lacks logical structure. Arguing for instance that we should not pursue our current economic tact because it will end placing our children in fiscal bondage, is not an example of logical fallacy. It's a cheesy trick, to use the emotional language "slaves!" but it's not a violation of logic, reason or accepted rhetoric.

[Betruger]

You're mixing oratory quality and rhetorical substance. What matters is whether the rational substance checks out or not, whether it's accurate, truthful. As far as truthfulness of a statement goes, it doesn't matter whether it's emotionally charged or not.

de gustibus et coloribus non disputandum

I admitted that humanity is deluded, and that one must deal with the reality that one finds.

Which says nothing of the "dealing".

[GIThruster]

You're mixing oratory quality and rhetorical substance. What matters is whether the rational substance checks out or not, whether it's accurate, truthful. As far as truthfulness of a statement goes, it doesn't matter whether it's emotionally charged or not.

de gustibus et coloribus non disputandum

I admitted that humanity is deluded, and that one must deal with the reality that one finds.

Which says nothing of the "dealing".

All absolutely true. To be technical, there are two different types of fallacies, logical and rhetorical. Appeals to emotion are logical fallacies in that the appeal replaces the logic in the argument. When the logic is intact meaning, the argument is logically valid; but there is a strong appeal to emotion, as with the use of fear, urging your children will become slaves; then the fallacy is merely rhetorical and is called "slanting by use of emotional language."

Almost all news media uses this sort of rhetoric on a daily basis in order to promote whatever world view their owners want to endorse. It's not logically invalid, and often the facts are not in question, but it is still an example of what in better ages was considered shabby, rhetoric.

[choff]

I'll repeat one item not commented on, the Venice Beach Airport in Florida, do a web search, the silence of American's on this subject is downright deafening!

http://madcowprod.com/

It just might bring a little perspective to the whole arguement about drugs. Ever wonder why so many drugs are consumed by Americans but usage drops right off in the rest of the world, conditioning perhaps? How come so many people in North America are convinced they can't survive without illegal drugs but the rest of the world would rather save it's money.

[GIThruster]

How come so many people in North America are convinced they can't survive without illegal drugs but the rest of the world would rather save it's money.

Americans have much more disposable income. And a dish washer. And a clothes dryer. And 5 DVD players in the house. And expensive gaming computers. And gas fireplaces. And cars for everyone over the age of 16. And. . .and. . .and. . .

[choff]

and...and...and...
when China had such a high level of Opium addiction obviously they had all that disposible income and stuff too! But that doesn't explain why you actually think you need it when you could survive without just like everybody else. At a minimum its very shrewd marketing that makes you buy, or just perhaps a deeper level of conditioning.

But that just sidesteps the issue of THE VENICE BEACH AIRPORT, FLORIDA, especially today. It's an issue nobody in your country is prepared to touch, not the FBI, probably not even the President.

[TallDave]

I am curious why advocates of legalized drugs don't believe that one piece of burning wood will not catch another piece on fire. This is axiomatic. How can usage not spread and increase over time?

By this argument we should be a nation of cigarette-smoking alcoholics by now, but of course we aren't -- because more people understand the dangers, fewer overindulge. In fact, research suggests addiction is very strongly correlated to past trauma. In most cases, it's probably a form of PTSD.

What, you believe in prohibition for people BELOW the age of 21?

The notion minors do not have right of consent is not a particularly controversial one. Where the line should be drawn is something reasonable people can disagree about.

Note that Prohibition for everyone amounts to an assertion that everyone lacks right to consent; i.e. it infantilizes society.

We can look to England as an example about how to organize the whole thing.

A better example would be how alcohol and cigarettes are managed. It seems to be working fine. The world is not going up in flames.

Why shouldn't they want the fruits of their monopoly? Everybody loves rent seeking.

Exactly! And it is in our power to end the monopoly, end the civil wars in South America, end the Taliban's power in Afghanistan, all just by letting people make their own choices.

[TallDave]

Ever wonder why so many drugs are consumed by Americans but usage drops right off in the rest of the world, conditioning perhaps?

Untrue, as best I can tell. The ratio seems pretty steady around 1-2%. Some are higher than the US, some lower.

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/d/drug_ab ... ountry.htm

But that just sidesteps the issue of THE VENICE BEACH AIRPORT, FLORIDA, especially today. It's an issue nobody in your country is prepared to touch, not the FBI, probably not even the President.

With all due respect to "Madcow Morning News" I'm not entirely sure what the "issue" is you think "nobody... is prepared to touch." That people are smuggling and get arrested sometimes?

[choff]

Alcohol consuption has been going on since the beginning of agriculture, wine and beer sit in the grey area between drugs and food. The consuption of fermented food has been happening since humans and animals started eating fruit. In contrast a very large set of illegal drugs require modern day chemistry to create.

The dangers of tobacco were not widely know until after WW2, and even then not until the Tobacco lobby propaganda was overcome, at that point the addiction rate was at least 35%. Addiction to tobacco products is slowly declining, but not without opposition from the pushers. Are you suggesting that one third of the population suffer from trauma, or could the usage by parents not be a larger factor.

We don't let 12 year olds drive automobiles, so to suggest a cutoff age would not be required for hard drugs is both ridiculous and unenforceable.

As a person of British extraction I do feel a certain knowlegde about how it's organized. If you don't believe me, ask someone of Chinese extraction.

If I was a pusher and wanted drugs legalized, wouldn't it make sense to claim my preference was, 'keep them illegal.' Then maybe I can fool enough people into doing the opposite.

Are American's afraid to discuss "THE VENICE BEACH AIRPORT, FLORIDA

[choff]

That people are smuggling and not being arrested mostly, because of who they are associate with, or flight schools that aren't flight schools, or perhaps the sheer scale of the whole operation, all in broad daylight, or just the whole cast of characters and connections to each other. Even if what's expounded is 25% true that's enough to take down a sizeable chunk of the upper echelon of US society.

[choff]

Your wrong diagnosis site has this disclaimer|:
Extrapolation of Prevalence Rate of Drug abuse to Countries and Regions:WARNING! EXTRAPOLATION ONLY! NOT BASED ON COUNTRY-SPECIFIC DATA SOURCES. The following table attempts to extrapolate the above prevalence rate for Drug abuse to the populations of various countries and regions. These prevalence extrapolations for Drug abuse are only estimates, based on applying the prevalence rates from the US (or a similar country) to the population of other countries, and therefore may have very limited relevance to the actual prevalence of Drug abuse in any region:

[WizWom]

Actually, my professor in Economics said the literature for the elasticity of the Marijuana market is about 0.42, which would indicate a significant drop in price would entice relatively little additional demand.

[MSimon]

I am not implying, I am outright stating that this is exactly the argument of the Libertarians. (All drugs must be legalized.)

I will go one further. In 5 years or less pot will be legalized. We will then take a rational look at all the other drugs and come to the conclusion that people take pain relievers to relieve pain. Duh.

Then we will probably go the route of the Swiss who TWICE voted in favor of heroin legalization.

We will look rationally at why people take drugs and let those who need them have them.

BTW heroin (except for its black market status) does less harm to people than alcohol. Less harmful than the most addictive substance known to man - tobacco.

I have spent the last 40 years educating the youth. Why? Up until age 20 most humans are open to reason. Once I get them - the game is eventually over.

Sadly - the stupidity of prohibition drives all too many youth into the arms of the socialists. They use prohibition the way they used Jim Crow - we are right on this so it follows we are right on everything else.

Nice set of unintended consequences you have given us Mr. D.

So what do you want Mr. D? A small minority using drugs? Or a very large minority favoring socialism? Which is more destructive to society?

Pot use peaks in youth. About 1/2 try it. What does it do re: respect for the law to make 1/2 our youth potential felons? If alcohol prohibition is any guide it destroys respect for the law.

Nice set of unintended consequences you have given us Mr. D.

How about the corruption of those supposed to be guardians of society?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... l_headline

Nice set of unintended consequences you have given us Mr. D.

All predictable had you studied alcohol prohibition. Which discredited socons for several generations. My mom will still not forgive them and she is over 90. What does that tell you - being wrong about things that affect youth will mold their political attitudes for generations.

Nice set of unintended consequences you have given us Mr. D.

[MSimon]

Your wrong diagnosis site has this disclaimer|:
Extrapolation of Prevalence Rate of Drug abuse to Countries and Regions:WARNING! EXTRAPOLATION ONLY! NOT BASED ON COUNTRY-SPECIFIC DATA SOURCES. The following table attempts to extrapolate the above prevalence rate for Drug abuse to the populations of various countries and regions. These prevalence extrapolations for Drug abuse are only estimates, based on applying the prevalence rates from the US (or a similar country) to the population of other countries, and therefore may have very limited relevance to the actual prevalence of Drug abuse in any region:

The prevalence of drug use is dependent on the stress level a particular society is under. That is why extrapolation is a fools errand. We see rising rates of heroin use in Iran and Russia. Societies under tremendous stress.

I would expect given current economic conditions that the rates of heroin use in America will be rising. Pot and all the other illegal drugs as well. Not to mention Oxycontin and all the legal medications.