That has been true for commercial users like almost forever. So far it hasn't been profitable to do that for homes.KitemanSA wrote:Nope. All it needs is a clock. Meters built these days have the hardware already. They just can't be used that way.MSimon wrote:To do that the utility must constantly send out price signals and the loads must be interruptable or delayable. Interrupts and delays cost money. Which of course the consumer will absorb. And the communications infrastructure. And the additional cost of appliances. And the havoc caused if the design causes grid crashes from unforseen or malicious events.
Will the savings be profitable? And for whom?
What you seem to think I support is what others call "smart grid". I don't, except to the degree that the power companies choose to use/develop it on their own. Most folks seem to want the gov'mint to mandate it. I share what I think are your objections to that bit of political chicanery.
By the by, here in VA we have both a Time-of-Use AND a "Power Level" charge for most larger users. If you use 24kWhr in 1 minute, you pay more than using it evenly over 24 hours. We pay not only for energy but power too.
Special Interests and Energy
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
"profitable" has nothing to do with it. In most places, it hasn't been permitted. Indeed, when CA did their solar subsidy and allowed the power companies to put start charging ToD pricing, the populous went ape-sh!t and the legislature reversed itself. Seems that not only did the Greenies want solar subsidies, they wanted them on top of the already subsidized rates. Hoorah for government controlled pricing!MSimon wrote: That has been true for commercial users like almost forever. So far it hasn't been profitable to do that for homes.
Guess What, I have to dispose of a CFL Bulb that just burned out.
Here's what the CT DEP says to do:
http://www.ct.gov/dep/cwp/view.asp?a=27 ... v_GID=1763
Here's the EPA:
http://www.epa.gov/epawaste/hazard/wast ... /index.htm
And CL&P:
http://www.cl-p.com/home/saveenergy/too ... posal.aspx
Now the nearest Home depot is about 20 minutes away and I would use juat about 1/2 gallon of gas to go there and takes about 1/2 hour total, which basically wipes out the $30 buck energy saving. Or I have to have a box for dead light bulbs full of Mercury, for years waiting for enough bulbs to add up to justify the trip. Does the possibility of saving $30 justify the risk of turning my house into a hazmat site, according to their own rules.
Here's what the CT DEP says to do:
http://www.ct.gov/dep/cwp/view.asp?a=27 ... v_GID=1763
Here's the EPA:
http://www.epa.gov/epawaste/hazard/wast ... /index.htm
And CL&P:
http://www.cl-p.com/home/saveenergy/too ... posal.aspx
Now the nearest Home depot is about 20 minutes away and I would use juat about 1/2 gallon of gas to go there and takes about 1/2 hour total, which basically wipes out the $30 buck energy saving. Or I have to have a box for dead light bulbs full of Mercury, for years waiting for enough bulbs to add up to justify the trip. Does the possibility of saving $30 justify the risk of turning my house into a hazmat site, according to their own rules.
Last edited by Jccarlton on Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Actually, commercial users pay a lower rate the more power they use. The aluminum smelters on the Columbia River used to get power for less cost from Bonneville Power Authority than the local utilities could buy it.MSimon wrote:That has been true for commercial users like almost forever. So far it hasn't been profitable to do that for homes.KitemanSA wrote:Nope. All it needs is a clock. Meters built these days have the hardware already. They just can't be used that way.MSimon wrote:To do that the utility must constantly send out price signals and the loads must be interruptable or delayable. Interrupts and delays cost money. Which of course the consumer will absorb. And the communications infrastructure. And the additional cost of appliances. And the havoc caused if the design causes grid crashes from unforseen or malicious events.
Will the savings be profitable? And for whom?
What you seem to think I support is what others call "smart grid". I don't, except to the degree that the power companies choose to use/develop it on their own. Most folks seem to want the gov'mint to mandate it. I share what I think are your objections to that bit of political chicanery.
By the by, here in VA we have both a Time-of-Use AND a "Power Level" charge for most larger users. If you use 24kWhr in 1 minute, you pay more than using it evenly over 24 hours. We pay not only for energy but power too.
Aluminum smelters have a very stable and predictable power consumption profile, suitable for the output of hard to throttle base load generators.IntLibber wrote:Actually, commercial users pay a lower rate the more power they use. The aluminum smelters on the Columbia River used to get power for less cost from Bonneville Power Authority than the local utilities could buy it.