Nonsense Patents... Moved over from "News" Discuss

[Skipjack]

Just so we can continue the topic here instead of the threads in News.
The original Threads were
"FRC+IEC ?"
viewtopic.php?t=2329

and
"Lawrenceville Plasma Physics June Update"
viewtopic.php?t=2312

[MSimon]

Lets remember that patents exist to protect intellectual property.

Uh. No. Patents exist to protect an expression of an idea.

Ideas themselves are not patentable. (of course that is not always what happens).

[GIThruster]

Ideas never fall into the category of "intellectual property."

Patents exist to protect intellectual property.

[GIThruster]

" You do not have a right to own an idea."

This is correct but almost mistakenly so. You cannot stop someone from thinking your original idea after you, but you can stop them from profiting from it instead of you. This is essentially what copyright, trademark and patent are for.

"Own an idea" is the contrivance here that makes the observation trivial. You can't own a series of words, but you can own the copyright on them. You can't own the idea behind a design, but you can own the rights to the design. You can't own a symbol or name used in trademark, but you can own the exclusive use of that mark. So saying "you can't own an idea" is true, but irrelevant. You can't stop someone hearing that song in their head, mumbling the words or shouting it as they get their coffee in Wawa, (nor should you want to) but you can stop them earning a living singing your words.

Just as it should be.

[Tom Ligon]

No idea is so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

Unless a patent is allowed to get in the way.

One of my pet peeves is digital video recorders. Apparently TiVo thinks they do own the idea. By what logic they manage to block all others from building even something that works like a simpleminded VCR, regardless of the technical details, is beyond me. They did not invent digital TV, they did not invent hard drives, and they did not invent computers. They apparently think linking these to record television programs falls under their patent. (The same technology used for security video is not owned by them).

[GIThruster]

I'm confused. Are you saying that all manufacturers of digital video recorders pay royalties to TiVo?

[Diogenes]

No idea is so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

Unless a patent is allowed to get in the way.

One of my pet peeves is digital video recorders. Apparently TiVo thinks they do own the idea. By what logic they manage to block all others from building even something that works like a simpleminded VCR, regardless of the technical details, is beyond me. They did not invent digital TV, they did not invent hard drives, and they did not invent computers. They apparently think linking these to record television programs falls under their patent. (The same technology used for security video is not owned by them).

Just another case of rent seeking.

[Skipjack]

what about all those patents hold by big oil on solar and no one can use those inventions and ideas or improve on those inventions or ideas?

Like somebody else asked:
Examples?

Also, you can very much improve on somebody elses patent and then file a patent for the improvement. That is actually a good part of the patent system and a very useful one at that.
So I am not quite sure why you think that no one can improve on those inventions and ideas...

[Tom Ligon]

GIThruster,

I've been in the market for a simple DVR for several years. I don't know the legal situation right now, but my understanding is that TiVo successfully sued pretty much all the competition to either pay them royalties or not sell. One holdout was attempting to buck the ruling, and it is possible for home users to "roll their own" by sticking a DTV receiver card in a PC and scrounging up the software to make it work.

What TiVo actually invented was apparently a system for identifying shows the viewer wanted recorded. It was aimed at the Cable TV market. However, they seem to have expanded their claims to the entire TV DVR idea. Someone like me, who receives over-the-air" and would be happy with a simple clock-based recording system is presently out of luck unless we dedicate a PC to the entertainment system. A VCR is no longer an option since I don't own one with a digital receiver, and have no equipment to conveniently give me an NTSC output from a digital receiver.

[GIThruster]

Huh. Well that's the first I've heard and I gave away my last DVR because I was never using it.

I just did a quick search on EBay for "Panasonic DVR" and had lots of hits, both new and used, and even DVR extenders that add 160GB to the Panasonic units. I'm sure you can find something. . .

[Skipjack]

I think another early company on the market, called Replay TV was successfully sued out of the market by Tivo. But I may be wrong here. That was a long time ago.

[GIThruster]

Could it be because the Panasonic units are set up to work with TV Guide that they're still on the market?

[GIThruster]

Maybe another option:

http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-rec ... ith-playtv

[bcglorf]

Could it be because the Panasonic units are set up to work with TV Guide that they're still on the market?

Tom never said everyone else was sued out of the market, but that they were sued for royalties OR shut out of the market. Seems quite possible that Panasonic is just paying royalties for their devices. That's becoming a more common than not circumstance in electronics lately.

[hanelyp]

The way patents are supposed to work, a patent is granted in exchange for disclosing to public record a technology that would otherwise not be public knowledge. Part of that is giving up any trade secret over the covered technology in exchange for the legal protection of the patent.

The way patents have been perverted, patents are granted on technology that would otherwise already be public knowledge, or granted despite incomplete disclosure such that a practitioner of the art may still need trade secrets to implement the technology.