Energy conversion...

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:22 pm

I remember the He4 q/m is the same as the H2 (D).

I can't think of an easy way for a D-D machine to clear He4 except for a lot of flow of reactant through the reactor and separate it from He4 (not hard chemically) in the exhaust.

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:03 pm

MSimon wrote:I remember the He4 q/m is the same as the H2 (D).

Yet another reason to hope for pB11?

Heath_h49008 · Post by **Heath_h49008** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:12 pm

D-D fusion isn't what I was thinking of. Boron 11 was.

Bremsstrahlung and Alpha radiation, as well as the 4He+ 8.7 MeV seem to be there for the taking.

I'm coming up to speed slowly on the math, and reading Tesla's old stuff on Bremsstrahlung.

I'm tripping over basics here, and I'll apologize ahead of time for my public school education.

93143 · Post by **93143** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:11 pm

Alpha particles are fast helium nuclei.

Bremsstrahlung has been predicted to be about 5% of net power by EMC2. Skeptics tend to think it will be more than the fusion power; EMC2 counters that the nonuniform, non-Maxwellian plasma in a Polywell allows you to get fancy with certain parameters and reduce it dramatically. Focus Fusion thinks you can capture it and generate power via the photoelectric effect or some such...

Heath_h49008 · Post by **Heath_h49008** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:20 am

Ahh.... I knew I was dealing with a basic confusion on my end.

I was treating the He energy as a separate value from the referenced Alpha energy. For some reason I kept thinking of an Alpha as ONLY two protons... (because of the charge)

Is the Bremsstralung radiation production reduced because the electron population in the machine is not exposed to any (or very little) nuclei causing it to change direction/state? I think I get it. Because they are only accelerated in new directions around the core, and never come close enough to anything massive enough to produce that "Braking effect".

Basically, the virtual anode where fusion occurs isn't big enough to cause much interaction, and the containment coils are simple enough not to act like the wiggler in a free electron laser. (Which is really just a tuned Bremsstrahlung generator.)

I'm starting to understand the case for the 90%+ efficiency.

This might be a question for a new thread, but, we are going to introduce the electrons and the fuel ions at the cusps, and allow them to fall into the well at whatever potential we're driving the well at. (600Kv for 11B fusion)

Our energy product escapes at these same cusps. Or are we planning to push fuel from the face of the containment coil housings and let it enter the circulating particle population from there giving us a clear view of the core reaction?

What I'm getting at is, could the introduction of fuel cause the very problem we're trying to solve?

I think I just caught a glimpse of what DeltaV was driving at. A polywell in the center of a barrel-motor directly driven by Alpha particles. That would be one powerful motor.

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:23 am

Heath_h49008 wrote:This might be a question for a new thread, but, we are going to introduce the electrons and the fuel ions at the cusps, and allow them to fall into the well at whatever potential we're driving the well at. (600Kv for 11B fusion)

I thought it was closer to 100kV because the B11 has 5 charges making 500keV of energy. Or is it the proton that controls here?

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:28 am

KitemanSA wrote:
Heath_h49008 wrote:This might be a question for a new thread, but, we are going to introduce the electrons and the fuel ions at the cusps, and allow them to fall into the well at whatever potential we're driving the well at. (600Kv for 11B fusion)
I thought it was closer to 100kV because the B11 has 5 charges making 500keV of energy. Or is it the proton that controls here?

Well now that you mention it the ideal is around 50KV assuming no well "loss". Actual voltage on the grid will run 55 to 75 KV depending.

I did the calculations here:

http://iecfusiontech.blogspot.com/2007/ ... r-iec.html

Of course if you want to derive the results yourself first and check your answer (or my work depending) it is instructive.

A spread sheet works well.

The electrons would be right on the edge of relativistic with the required drive. Don't forget you are driving the protons as well as the borons. You would be surprised at what a difference that makes.

Heath_h49008 · Post by **Heath_h49008** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:28 am

http://iecfusiontech.blogspot.com/2007/ ... r-b11.html

I'm reading.... Thanks for the link! I love this blog!

I promise, I'll get up to speed on the math and terminology in a few weeks.

Can you direct me to a description of the electron distribution inside an operating WB reactor at full and partial power? Google seems a bit off the mark when I ask.

Thank you again.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:30 am

Heath_h49008 wrote:http://iecfusiontech.blogspot.com/2007/ ... r-b11.html

I'm reading.... Thanks for the link! I love this blog!

I promise, I'll get up to speed on the math and terminology in a few weeks.

Can you direct me to a description of the electron distribution inside an operating WB reactor at full and partial power? Google seems a bit off the mark when I ask.

Thank you again.

It is all conjecture for now.

DeltaV · Post by **DeltaV** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:13 am

Heath_h49008 wrote:I think I just caught a glimpse of what DeltaV was driving at. A polywell in the center of a barrel-motor directly driven by Alpha particles. That would be one powerful motor.

Actually, I was thinking of one variable-twist, rotating-hyperboloid, electrostatic motor per magrid face. For a cubical Polywell that would be six motors, and for a dodecahedral Polywell that would be twelve motors. Unless it makes more sense to have one "weak" magrid coil inducing a "jet" mode. I don't have a clue if most of the alphas would cooperate in that case by exiting through just one coil; depends on field strengths, alpha dwell times and many other factors, but it might make packaging the system easier for a flying machine. The whole hyperboloid idea is worthless if the magnetic shielding from the inner+outer coils is not sufficient to prevent excessive electron losses. Greater coil separation means the hyperboloid could become more cone-like when twisted (intercept more alphas), but greater separation also reduces the B field strength, which would increase losses of recirculating/oscillating electrons. If it should work out that the shielding is adequate, you could maybe tweak fields with currents/potentials in/on the hyperboloid bars, even when they are untwisted into a cylinder (electrostatic motors off). They would of course need a non-conducting outer sheath in order to retain any charge from the alphas, and I have no idea how much charge could be retained. Lots of interesting possibilities though for future evolutions.

DeltaV · Post by **DeltaV** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:01 pm

Two nested, coaxial hyperboloids, both having adjustable twist angles, could be used for the electrostatic motor's rotor and stator. Only one of these would rotate 'en masse'. Twist for both would be adjusted in unison to keep stator bars close to rotor bars for maximum torque. Both would be untwisted to cylinders when all the alphas were needed for direct conversion.

DeltaV · Post by **DeltaV** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:07 pm

DeltaV wrote:They would of course need a non-conducting outer sheath in order to retain any charge from the alphas...

Unless the bars are left 'floating', i.e., not electrically connected to anything, then uncoated metal might do. Charge 'pickoffs' needed somewhere in the cycle for 'commutation'.

DeltaV · Post by **DeltaV** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:14 pm

If alpha erosion is as bad as some have stated elsewhere, it would be better to use the inner hyperboloid bars for a direct conversion grid, so that the alphas impact them at low speed, and then use the accumulated charge for torque, with charge pickoffs in the right locations completing the circuit.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:33 am

It's way past my bedtime, and I'm caffeine-deficient to boot (only had 4 large mugs today), so I should probably sleep on this, but I'll forget it by morning...

I often have similar problems. I attribute it to my Navy training. ;-)

Axil · Post by **Axil** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:11 am

The challenge of direct energy conversion involved in converting the kinetic energy of a nuclear figment(alphas …etc) to electric power is best done by avoiding radiation damage that is inherent in any solid material or as an alternative, constant and easy replacement of solid power conversion components.

The design platform that makes direct power conversion easy is the Helion reactor. I would love to post on this but the promised Helion forum that can frame my posts just has not materialized. You might be able to retool some of these concepts in favor of polywell.

Until the Helion forum comes into being, struggle on.