Cutting off the lights

[Scupperer]

First I'd need to get my GSA approval, rent a house in the closest HUD zone and claim it as my primary address, and then see if I have enough minority blood in my system to qualify for the set asides.

[Josh Cryer]

the thing very likely won't even last the 11.41 years necessary to break even, let alone save any money.

Why do you say that? They run much cooler and the bulb life is well into 50,000 hours. That's nearly three times sodium vapor. While they are currently much more expensive (I think $1000 is conservative, because we're talking about public works here, heh), if more are installed the price should come down considerably.

I can agree that they may not be ready for mainstream yet, but we gotta start somewhere. Maybe convince Wal-Mart to install them at all their locations. Wal-Mart changed the way their trucks operate and saves 20 million a year on gas, just by having the guys turn them off when they do rest stops (and using batteries to keep the cab comfortable).

[MSimon]

First I'd need to get my GSA approval, rent a house in the closest HUD zone and claim it as my primary address, and then see if I have enough minority blood in my system to qualify for the set asides.

Since we all came out of Africa and there is no limit to how far back you are allowed to claim......

[Soylent]

LED's consume a lot less than half the power of a fluorescent light. (from package ratings at costco)

In terms of lm/watt it's pretty much a toss up between commercially available LEDs and fluorescent lights.

It is possible to make white LEDs that put out 150 lm/W but you can't buy them and they're not usable in a practical light-source(e.g. LEDs are much more efficient at low current, that means small light output. LEDs are more efficient if you don't cluster them toghether because more of the light escapes into the room)

LEDs aren't more efficient than metal halide bulbs either, and if you go with hideous monochrome-yellow low pressure sodium. The only thing that really speaks strongly for LED lighting to me is that eventually there might be cheap OLED surfaces that provide nice, soft lighting of adjustable colour.

[Josh Cryer]

LEDs aren't more efficient than metal halide bulbs either, and if you go with hideous monochrome-yellow low pressure sodium.

Yeah, ugh. I hate the color. This page illustrates the difference between LED and sodium: http://www.kslights.com/led-comparison/

As far as efficiency is concerned, LEDs are about equal to sodium, but they do last at least twice as long, so if the manufacturing costs drop they'd be a better option. Just compare those images.

[MSimon]

I'll bring the car to put on blocks and the tire swing to improve the standards in the hood.

Parts storage depot and the local Disney world for the kids.

Myself? I love seeing junked cars in the hood. But I admit it is a somewhat unusual taste.

[Diogenes]

Last time I checked, LED street lights cost $1,000.00 each.

When was the last time you checked?

A few months ago.

Several new manufacturing plants for ultra-bright white LED's are on-line just this year. My local Sam's is selling LED bulbs at about what CF bulbs ran when they first hit mass production ($5-$15/bulb, depending on brightness). They're available in equivalent light ratings from 25W-150W (sorry, they don't give the actual lumens on the packaging, just the incandescent equivalents).

You do realize we are talking about STREET LIGHTS? Not household lights.

I've already started switching out the CF bulbs in my house as they burn out. The light quality is much better, and they seem to work fine on dim switches, too. There are also LED replacements for fluorescent tubes, as well, but haven't seen them yet locally.

Anyway, I figure with the product available to the mass public now, the streetlights are probably much less expensive as well.

I normally keep on top of the latest LED technology for industrial uses. I haven't been paying much attention to the consumer market.

[Diogenes]

the thing very likely won't even last the 11.41 years necessary to break even, let alone save any money.

Why do you say that?

I have some experience with this. The lower quality units (i'm not going to name the companies) often don't even last five years. The better quality products average about 6 years.

They run much cooler and the bulb life is well into 50,000 hours. That's nearly three times sodium vapor.

The LED's themselves may be good for 50,000 hours, but it is often the power supplies that fail. Not only that, but in most of these products, the LEDs are in a series string, and the failure of one takes out the entire string. I have boxes full of Dead LED lighting assemblies.

While they are currently much more expensive (I think $1000 is conservative, because we're talking about public works here, heh), if more are installed the price should come down considerably.

I have contacted the company that someone posted a link to earlier in this thread. It is a Chinese company, but I received a phone call from a fellow in New York. He says that his company works in conjunction with the Chinese company to handle American accounts.

I always keep things simple. "How much?" I asked. "What size? " He replied. "Four Hundred watts equivalent." I responded. "Sorry, we don't make one that big." He said. "Okay, 250 watts then." I negotiated. " We have just put the finishing touches on that product and it is now available."

To get to the point, the man was willing to tell me everything about the product EXCEPT for the one thing I wanted to know. "How much?" He told me that he would put me in touch with a "Sales Engineer" and once they had a better understanding of my application they could provide me some pricing information.


I *HATE* companies that won't give me a price. The first thing I need to know is whether or not i'm wasting my time and theirs, but many companies like to play these coy little games with their pricing, thinking perhaps they can finesse the economics with enough sales bullshit.


The fact that the fellow did so much dancing around the central question immediately tells me that the price is not good, and quite likely impossible to justify economically. But we shall see.

[Diogenes]

LED's consume a lot less than half the power of a fluorescent light. (from package ratings at costco)
But they are still way too expensive for me yet, except in flashlights where you can't beat them.

The pure color LEDs DO use a lot less than half the power of fluorescent lights, however, the WHITE LED's are not that efficient. The white LED's are basically a blue or UV LED that excite a phosphorescent additive to emit White light. Since the public apparently insists on having White light street lights and other lighting applications, people have to accept the loss of efficiency that occurs as a result of using them.

Personally, I don't know why Yellow street lights wouldn't be acceptable. As far as i'm concerned, All that matters is if you can see, not if you have color spectrum purity.

[Helius]

It's qualifying the customer. Apparently you consider their products as commodity, while to them it is a device for market penetration.

You couldn't be their customer, and they couldn't be your supplier. Clearly the guy in New York successfully screened for this; So he did a good job.

[Diogenes]

It's qualifying the customer. Apparently you consider their products as commodity, while to them it is a device for market penetration.

You couldn't be their customer, and they couldn't be your supplier. Clearly the guy in New York successfully screened for this; So he did a good job.

If the price is right I plan on buying an initial order of 10 units. If they appear reliable, I will probably be buying quite a few more. If I cannot get a recovery of my investment (including installation and maintenance costs) within 5 years, I consider it a bad investment.

The economics either work or they don't. If they don't, he is wasting my time.

[Skipjack]

Since the public apparently insists on having White light street lights and other lighting applications, people have to accept the loss of efficiency that occurs as a result of using them.

Actually I think that this bluish white light is really bad. I think the same about car headlights as well. IMHO a more reddish light tone would be much more suitable (like an orangish yellow, or something like that).
Why? Well white to blue light makes our eyes and brain adjust for daylight and not for night. Yes you see realy well what is directly inside the light, but you see nothing that is outside the direct light, because it is actually so blinding.
Same goes for oncoming traffic. Yellowish orange, or reddish lights should IMHO be a lot less blinding to oncoming traffic.
The submarine veterans here will certainly know about the red light and blue light inside a submarine as well. Same reason why they turn on red light before going up on the tower at night, so your eyes adjust more easily to the darkness outside.

[MSimon]

It's qualifying the customer. Apparently you consider their products as commodity, while to them it is a device for market penetration.

You couldn't be their customer, and they couldn't be your supplier. Clearly the guy in New York successfully screened for this; So he did a good job.

The guy was looking to sell the lights based on the pretty girl standing next to the display (computer conventions were a LOT of FUN when the first boxes with Dual Floppies appeared.) What we call sex appeal. Or won't I look smart if I buy a basket full of these. All the people who really CARE will give me the time of day and maybe the chick with the high capacity dual floppies will give me a smile.

Diogenes was just looking for utility.