Some thoughts on obama's jobs summit and the economy

[MSimon]

And, to make this clear, I want - NO I REQUIRE- the leader of the most powerful nation in the world, actually anyone who wants to have authority over me, to be better educated and more intelligent than me.

I've always suspected no one was fit to rule me. Now I know for sure.

Seriously, though, intelligence and education does not correlate to good political decision-making. I'll take marginally competent, right principles, and completely honest over marginally honest, wrong principles, and uber-competent every day.

Why does it have to be a choice? Aren't there any smart people who have the right principles?


Intelligence = best capable of using their resources to get a result

Correct principles, politics that agree with you, etc = wants the right result (subjectively)

I'd rather have a smart person who wants the same things I want.

The more the criteria the smaller the overlap in the Venn diagram.

[MirariNefas]

I'm going with the wiki spelling. And yes. American and British are definitely different.

I think you have been overtaken by the French disease. Americans by and large are not too fussy. The question is: is communication taking place. If it is mistaking "to" for "too" from time to time is tolerable.

I just ask for a little consistency. If something is worth doing, it's worth doing right - at least when it comes to our role models and leaders, who should be held up to a higher standard. If you don't want to differentiate between "to" and "too", then by all means make it official and throw out the distinction. None of this half-assery.

[Skipjack]

In regards to Fox News:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utE9bCnMWJs

http://www.youtube.com/user/stars4light ... EibwlNQKiU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPeL8t6d9AY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK6tzT39o_Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7jBVWMXC4M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Qpw54ylGc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ4xkAZQSrQ

[MirariNefas]

Aren't there any smart people who have the right principles?

The more the criteria the smaller the overlap in the Venn diagram.

The Venn diagram is spread out across the entire US. We've got a big pool of people to narrow down from. There should be a decently large number in that overlap region.

[MSimon]

It is not planitaria in Washington I worry about. It is the planaria.

BTW when I type in "plan" Google suggests: "planetariums".

[Skipjack]

It is not just the "planetariums" (though I had to cringe every time he said it), it is also the "overhead projector". But I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt here and say, well it is kinda over your head and it is an projector, but you know...
It was not just that though. There were many other things he said and did that I was not in agreement with.
I still found him more appealing that Sarah Palin though, way more.
Compared to her, he seemed to be a genius.
Btw, I am not saying that your current president is without flaws. His wife is a better speaker than him. E.g. it is not a good idea to start every other sentence with "Yo" if you are the president of the US and not some gangster rapper.

[Diogenes]

and the Islamic Religious fanatics will eventually force Islam on everyone, and kill the A-thiest troublemakers.

Careful here.
First, most of the atheists like me are for strict secularismn. Most of the Christian right in the US are against it, weanting to force bullcrap like "Intelligent Design" to be tought at schools.

Further, I am with you here. Islam is a problem, a problem that will spread and that must not be underestimated. However, I do think we have different opinions on the means to fight it with.
You e.g. are trying to fight it with denouncing the very people that are about to fall victim first. The germans. Within the next two generations they will be gone, over, out, bye. They have fallen victim to the WW2- winner- prescribed mental self castration. As I posted before, there are schools in Germany where up to 90% of the students dont speak german anymore. They are either Turks or Arabs.
The only thing that makes me happy about it is that it will backfire at those that prescribed the German people to commit this mental self castration. It is already starting. When Turks are rioting in the German streets, then the German jews are forced (by turkish- heritage German police forces) to take down their flags. Jews are getting singled out again in Germany, not by the Germans, they are powerless by now, by the Turks. When German German police forces have to go make a single arrest in a Turkish quarter. they have to come with 20, 30 cars, because they will emmediately be surrounded by just as many turks. A single car is without chance and has to leave the field to the Turkish mob. Such is Germany these days!
It will only get worse. Germany is still sitting on a few thousand US nukes and the fools from the US are lobbying for Turkey to join the EU. You guys are so clueless it is hillarious!

I agree with most of what you say here. My point is that it is impossible to stop religious fanaticism with secularism. They won't listen. They won't respect secular traditions and customs.

The choice between Religion and secularism is a false choice. The choice of secularism won't be allowed by the Muslims, and it is trying to make itself the enemy of the Christians.

You won't be able to sit out the eventual confrontation. A lot of people think it's too late for Europe, and within 50 years, Europe will be a fully Islamic continent.

Too much of an open mind (Tolerance, etc.) makes one's brains fall out.

And yes, the United States does incredibly stupid things, especially when brilliant geniuses (Woodrow Wilson, John Kennedy, Robert Macnemara, Jimmy Carter) are running it.

Turkey has been lost, and the leaders today are fools if they don't see it. .



Edit: The Meme of Islam is evolutionarily superior to the Meme of secularism. In a contest for the survival of the fittest, i'm betting on Islam Meme winning the contest.

[Diogenes]

The Original Nazis (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei ) is gone, but it's meme's and it's legacy live on. I see echos of Nazism in any authoritative government.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNFmR6SC30o

Hey, that's cute. Unfortunately I can't do that. I wish I could, but I can't. I cannot help but thinking about what people tell me.

[Diogenes]

As someone else mentioned, it looks like embryonic stem cell research is turning out to be as valuable to humanity as Global Warming research.

Do you know something I don't? The recent clinical trials are going badly?

All the advances that *I'M* hearing about seem to be coming from the areas of Adult Stem cell research.

Most of those "advances" don't really add up to much, but the reprogramming thing shows promise. Alas, ten years in the future, as always.

(Which always made sense to me. How can anyone's stem cells but their own be made to safely integrate into their bodies tissues ? Foreign DNA gets rejected, or the immune system must be maintained in a suppressed mode. )

Look up induced tolerance. Check out Geron's line on the subject - funny, eh? For many cell types they won't even need to take any special efforts inducing tolerance at all. Good times for all, no immune suppression.

My point is that I'm hearing (reading) very little developments in the area of embryonic stem cell research, but I am hearing (reading) all sorts of advances in the area of Adult stem cell research. I've recently heard of breakthroughs on Adult stem cell research in Japan and France. If I am missing news about breakthroughs in the area of Embryonic stem cell research, it might be due to the fact that the websites I frequent probably are posting about Adult Stem cell research, and might not be covering any information on Embryonic stem cell research.

Due to the variety and due to the massive scope of the news covered by these websites, I find it unlikely that I am missing developments. It is NOT one of my pet issues, so it's possible I just haven't been paying enough attention.

I find Cancer and AIDS research far more interesting.

[Diogenes]

In regards to Fox News:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utE9bCnMWJs

http://www.youtube.com/user/stars4light ... EibwlNQKiU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPeL8t6d9AY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK6tzT39o_Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7jBVWMXC4M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Qpw54ylGc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ4xkAZQSrQ

I Give Up ! I Give Up ! I Surrender ! ...


No I don't. I plead Nolo contedere


I could mention ABC news' religious corespondent, and various other broadcasts i've seen on other networks, but It's just not worth the amount of trouble to look up refuting proof. The issue doesn't sufficiently move me.

[Skipjack]

I plead Nolo contedere

No you can not do that.
You could plead "nolo contendere".
But I wont allow that either. You challenged me and I took it.
Oh and yes, other channels have been guilty of similar nonsense and worse. That was not the point. My point was that Fox news is leaning more towards supporting the religious right versus others are leaning more towards supporting the "religious" left (different book, same bullshit). The media landscape in the US is more diverse than you want to make it.

My point is that I'm hearing (reading) very little developments in the area of embryonic stem cell research, but I am hearing (reading) all sorts of advances in the area of Adult stem cell research.

There cant be much development in the US in embryonic stem cell research in the US, since there was very little of it in the last few years.
I think any restrictions on this research are not a good idea, btw.
This was actually originally on CNN (where I saw it):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSAoF_LTCq4

I am pretty sceptical too for quite a few reasons this seems to good to be true and quite shady.
But, the fact persists that people are going to China to get treatments unavailable to them in US, simply because there was no research done there for 8 years.

[Diogenes]

I plead Nolo contedere

No you can not do that.
You could plead "nolo contendere".

D@amn my fumble fingers!

But I wont allow that either. You challenged me and I took it.

Just on this issue ? I challenged you on several issues, and this is the one you want to argue ?

Someone just taught me an appropriate response.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNFmR6SC30o

Oh and yes, other channels have been guilty of similar nonsense and worse. That was not the point. My point was that Fox news is leaning more towards supporting the religious right versus others are leaning more towards supporting the "religious" left (different book, same bullshit). The media landscape in the US is more diverse than you want to make it.

It depends on how deep into diversity you want to talk about. The mindset among employees of the New York and Los Angeles based media empires are pretty monolithic. Maybe their backgrounds are different, and their reasons are different, but their conclusions are virtually verbatim. (they all hate the right and the people of the right.)

My point is that I'm hearing (reading) very little developments in the area of embryonic stem cell research, but I am hearing (reading) all sorts of advances in the area of Adult stem cell research.

There cant be much development in the US in embryonic stem cell research in the US, since there was very little of it in the last few years.
I think any restrictions on this research are not a good idea, btw.
This was actually originally on CNN (where I saw it):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSAoF_LTCq4

The story doesn't mention if it was embryonic stem cells, but given that it was in China it most likely was. But here is an example of what i'm talking about when I refer to media bias. The Liberals are Hugely in favor of Embryonic Stem cell research because it justifies their position that an aborted fetus is nothing but tissue. CNN is a very Liberal (if not THE most liberal ) network.

Media shape public opinion by portraying ideas they find acceptable in good terms, and portraying ideas (or people) they don't like in negative terms, or not covering them at all.

I am pretty sceptical too for quite a few reasons this seems to good to be true and quite shady.
But, the fact persists that people are going to China to get treatments unavailable to them in US, simply because there was no research done there for 8 years.

What, did you forget about Schwarzenegger ? He made a very public and impassioned speech about rejecting President Bush's decision to only fund research on the 10 existing embryonic stem cell lines, (note here that Bush did't BAN research. As a matter of fact he is FUNDING research. He just didn't agree to funding an expanded line of embryonic stem cells. I hope you understand the difference.) and insisting that Bankrupt and irresponsible California would at the worst possible financial times in the history of that state, Fund the research itself !

http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/press-release/2487/

Thank the media for not making sure people understood the difference.

In any case, yes, the cure seemed pretty remarkable. I personally believe stem cell and gene therapy will very likely result in some miraculous cures (like paralysis) but the results shown on the video do look suspiciously amazing.

[Skipjack]

Just on this issue ? I challenged you on several issues, and this is the one you want to argue ?

Not just on this one, I thought I had all the others pretty much covered as well. Did I miss something?

Someone just taught me an appropriate response.

Glad you share my sense of (admittedly sometimes a little infantile)humor.
Nothing better to get a little more fun into an otherwise heated discussion (political discussions are always so heated and serious )

The mindset among employees of the New York and Los Angeles based media empires are pretty monolithic.

CNN is based out of Atlanta, I thought.

The story doesn't mention if it was embryonic stem cells, but given that it was in China it most likely was.

It was. There are more reports on treatments for blindness caused by this particular kind of nerve damage. This is not the only one. I guess that this one is particularily easy to fix with stem cell treatment for some reason.
It still seems very weird to me as to how that works. I am familiar with gene therapy, but I cant follow how this particular treatment works.
Fact is that these reports do seem genuine. There are several, independent reports from different parts of the US and Europe and also several different TV- channel reports with different people getting treatments.

[MSimon]

I'm going with the wiki spelling. And yes. American and British are definitely different.

I think you have been overtaken by the French disease. Americans by and large are not too fussy. The question is: is communication taking place. If it is mistaking "to" for "too" from time to time is tolerable.

I just ask for a little consistency. If something is worth doing, it's worth doing right - at least when it comes to our role models and leaders, who should be held up to a higher standard. If you don't want to differentiate between "to" and "too", then by all means make it official and throw out the distinction. None of this half-assery.

Well OK. Consistency. He is an American and does the word the American way. I can see why you are sceptical. But in America we harken back to the original Greek and are therefor skeptics. I mean heck. Don't you Brits even know where your words come from?

[MSimon]

"And they will be all the more lethal if we allow them to build arsenals of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. We simply cannot allow that to happen…

"There is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein's Iraq. His regime threatens the safety of his people, the stability of his region and the security of all the rest of us.”
--W. J. Clinton, February 17, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
--Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
--Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
--Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
--Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country….
Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
--Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
--Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
--Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002