F-22 production termination is premature

Discuss life, the universe, and everything with other members of this site. Get to know your fellow polywell enthusiasts.

Moderators: tonybarry, MSimon

Skipjack
Posts: 6897
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Skipjack »

Violence in Islam is not a new thing:
Oh I am sure aware of that.
No question about it.
Them durned Israelis benefited in another way. Saddam was no longer subsidizing the suicide bombing of Jews.
I would think that it was more the Lybians, Iranians and Jordanians subsidizing that.
Saddam actually was comparably un- islamistic. As I mentioned before, that is why the US and others tollerated him for such a long time, even supported him until he became inconvenient.

MSimon
Posts: 14335
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Post by MSimon »

Saddam was paying $25,000 to the bomber's family for attacks carried out.

You know how it is You're Jewish and you pay attention to that sort of thing. It sticks in the memory.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Skipjack
Posts: 6897
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Skipjack »

I thought that was Gaddafi.

Skipjack
Posts: 6897
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Skipjack »

Either way, it does not matter. Israel was interested in him being removed and so it conveniently happened that there were WMDs suspected there.

TallDave, if Iraq is so save, then why dont more US citizens move there?

MSimon
Posts: 14335
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Post by MSimon »

Skipjack wrote:I thought that was Gaddafi.
Saddam.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
Posts: 14335
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Post by MSimon »

Lying about the rationale of war? Before the election, Tom Daschle believed iraq had wmd's and was a threat. Bill Clinton believed iraq had wmd's. Vladamir Putin believed iraq had wmd's. John Kerry had the same intelligence reports that Bush had, and voted for the resolution of war, as well as Hillary Clinton. Then, at the height of the upcoming election they all became against the war in iraq.

Saddam Hussein would pay terrorist families 25,000 dollars who's members blew themselves up around Jews in Jerusalem.

The bottom line is Saddam was playing cat and mouse with the UN and the weapons inspectors. He violated numerous UN resolutions on weapons inspections. Finally he kicked inspectors out of iraq, then they weren't in there for about 14 months(which would be plenty of time to hide something or ship something out). He was acting like he had something to hide. As any reasonable person would assume like Bill Clinton, Putin, and Kerry did. If he didn't have any wmd's, and had nothing to hide, why did he act so funny and fickle with the UN? Why did he kick the inspectors out? Why did he violate so many UN resolutions?

from the comments:

http://www.impeachbush.tv/letters/ltr_041124.html

BTW I agree with it.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Skipjack
Posts: 6897
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Skipjack »

Finally he kicked inspectors out of iraq, then they weren't in there for about 14 months(which would be plenty of time to hide something or ship something out).
As someone else in the comments said, they were not kicked out, they left.
Further, it would still be up to the UN to decide what to do about it.
There is a reason why this exists. It is democracy among countries.
The US even has a priority position as a permanent member of the security council.
What else do you want?

I went it looked it up. You are right, Saddam did hand out money to families of suicide bombers (not to would be bombers though).
I too find this condemnable. Also, dont get me wrong, I never liked Saddam. I just doubt that the current situation is so much better. Iraq will be overrun by militant moslems very soon. It will be a second Iran within a decade, or two. That is my prediction.

MSimon
Posts: 14335
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Post by MSimon »

The UN is dominated by Dictators R Us.

Why in Hades would we want to listen to them?
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
Posts: 14335
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Post by MSimon »

Iraq will be overrun by militant moslems very soon.
What makes you say that? Iraq got a good dose of the militants from 2004 to 2007. They didn't like that.

So the jihadis have little popular support.

Secondly - their military effectiveness is about 1/10th what it was 2 years ago. Assume the Iraqi Army is 1/4 the quality of the US Army. The government dominates.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Skipjack
Posts: 6897
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Skipjack »

The UN is dominated by Dictators R Us.

Why in Hades would we want to listen to them?
Then you should take the consequences and leave!
If you despise the union of nations so much, then be so honest an leave. Dont put the politically correct face on for the rest of the world and then do whatever you want anyway (as you have been doing for years now).
What makes you say that? Iraq got a good dose of the militants from 2004 to 2007. They didn't like that.
So the jihadis have little popular support.
Yeah and those car bombs are all blowing up by accident or something?
The majority of the country are the more radical shias. The sunis were in charge, but were the minority. Who do you think will take over the country?
Get real man! Islam is taking over the world, why should it be different in a country like Iraq?

TallDave
Posts: 3152
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:12 pm
Contact:

Post by TallDave »

Either way, it does not matter. Israel was interested in him being removed and so it conveniently happened that there were WMDs suspected there.
They weren't "suspected" they were actually used. What no one knows, to this day, is what happened to them. Saddam refused to cooperate with inspections, as was required under the cease-fire (and yes, he did kick them out at one point).
TallDave, if Iraq is so save, then why dont more US citizens move there?
Same reason more of us don't move to Mexico or Zimbabwe: it's a poor country compared to ours.
I just doubt that the current situation is so much better.
Factually, it is.

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/ ... /index.pdf
Citation please.
http://www.aei.org/article/24400

2 million is a widely accepted number for Saddam, which works to 7000 a month over his reign. Even at half that number, the average for his regime is still higher than almost any month of the occupation, and more than ten times the current rate. Claims that the occupation was deadlier than Saddam are just totally wrong.
That would seem a lot more than their birth rate can support.
84,000 a year. Iraq has 25 million people.
Also what I named are just the casualties of the war
Not really. The "casualties of the war" are something like 10,000 and all happened in the first year. The vast majority of the people killed died in an internal power struggle that was going on long before we got there. We stuck around and helped make sure the elected government won out, and so we get blamed for those as well. But ok, fine. It's still far better than under Saddam.

TallDave
Posts: 3152
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:12 pm
Contact:

Post by TallDave »

Yeah, if you are a muslim man you can do whatever you want, very liberal! If you are anything else, you will most likely get killed, or "mamed, tortured or forced to watch your children get raped".
In Lebanon? The country isn't all Muslim. They have a Christian and Druze population. They have nightclubs and parties and are pretty Western.
1. The muslim extremists. They can now get footholds in Iraq and Iran has lost its main opponent giving it all the money and time to do whatever they want
It's main opponent is the United States.

People tend to forget that in 1991 Saddam sent his air force to hide in Iran. They may have fought a war and been ideologically opposed but ultimately they had more in common with each other than Iraq's current gov't.

Iraq's Shia by and large have no reverence for Qom. In fact, they are generally contemptuous of them.
Last edited by TallDave on Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.

TallDave
Posts: 3152
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:12 pm
Contact:

Post by TallDave »

You've missed the point. Nothing about Jaguar is intelligent.

It doesn't take size to demonstrate intelligence. Single-celled organisms that respond appropriately to their environment and reproduce are already intelligent.
They can't carry on a conversation, solve an equation, write a poem, or compose a song.

There is a certain minimum computing power to what we would call human-like intelligence.

Skipjack
Posts: 6897
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Skipjack »

They weren't "suspected" they were actually used. What no one knows, to this day, is what happened to them. Saddam refused to cooperate with inspections, as was required under the cease-fire (and yes, he did kick them out at one point).
Well, once the war was won, they looked and did not find anything.
People tend to forget that in 1991 Saddam sent his air force to hide in Iran.
Hu?
I am sure Iran loved that. Hey free planes!
It's main opponent is the United States.
Yes now that the Iraq is gone.
And Israel, you forgot. Credit, where credit is due ;)
Same reason more of us don't move to Mexico or Zimbabwe: it's a poor country compared to ours.
There is lots of money to made there right now though...

Well according to Wikipedia 1 million have died in Iraq due to the fighting.
The internal power struggles are a direct result of the power vacuum left behind bei Saddam.
Come one, everybody knew that this was going to happen. Why do you think Saddam was not removed much, much earlier?
We could have done it in 1991. People actually asked why he was left in office back then. I do remember that very well. I was one asking. The answer was "because the world is grey" and Saddam is needed for stability in the region.
You know it, I know it.
The US knew it before 91 too. Why otherwise did you support him all the years before 91? Why? Because he was convenient!
Heck everyone was selling stuff to Iraq. Western contractors built mid range rocket factories for him and sarine gas factories. Gerald Bull started construction of a super cannon (until the Mossad shot him like a dog, when Saddam all of a sudden turned less convenient).

kunkmiester
Posts: 892
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:51 pm
Contact:

Post by kunkmiester »

Then you should take the consequences and leave!
If you despise the union of nations so much, then be so honest an leave. Dont put the politically correct face on for the rest of the world and then do whatever you want anyway (as you have been doing for years now).
Gladly, as soon as we elect a Senate of John Boltons to do it. Problem is, we have a bunch of socialists that love the UN, and hate America. There's a few too many of them for those of us with brains to vote them out though.

Part of the consequences would be saving a couple hundred billion a year, IIRC. There's actually several nations that should quit, since the UN will ultimately be worthless to them, and potentially harmful.
Evil is evil, no matter how small

Post Reply