Healthcare & rationing

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Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

Well this article might be right to some degree and maybe not.
In Europe you still have to get your drugs approved in every single country. That means a much smaller market per approval process. In the US you get a market of more than 300.000 people with a single approval process. Since each approval costs money, independently of the size of the country, it makes sense to approve products in the bigger market first.
Heck, we do medical imaging software and do the very same. And we are not limited by any government pricing or something.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

I already addressed the special assessment loophole. At best this means you might be paying U.S. prices for ~10% of your drugs, but I doubt even that's true. Most likely you are still only paying the Euro price-controlled standard, even for those.
The fact that it must not exceed that of other EU- countries is a matter of self protection for Austria.
So basically you admit you have price controls based on the Euro standard. So much for your ridiculous claim you pay the same we do.

And so we agree you are free riders.
Austria is a small country and pharmaceutical companies that have a monopoly on a product could try to negociate prices up since Austria is such a small market.
We have basically NO price controls at all here. When you invent something, you are SUPPOSED to have a monopoly on it. This encourages people to invent things.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

In Europe you still have to get your drugs approved in every single country
Nope, just by the EMEA. THat's why it's there.
That means a much smaller market per approval process.
Nope, the EU is a bigger market. It's just less profitable because they're all free riders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Medicines_Agency
The majority of existing medicines throughout the European Union's member states remain authorised nationally, but the majority of genuinely novel medicines are authorised through the EMEA

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

I already addressed the special assessment loophole. At best this means you might be paying U.S. prices for ~10% of your drugs, but I doubt even that's true. Most likely you are still only paying the Euro price-controlled standard, even for those.
Not to my satisfaction. Since 60% of available drugs are on the list, 40% are not. Not 10% like you are saying.
The majority of existing medicines throughout the European Union's member states remain authorised nationally

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

Not to my satisfaction. Since 60% of available drugs are on the list, 40% are not. Not 10% like you are saying.
You aren't getting those 40% at the same rate, though. They have to come through the special assessment loophole -- and you have penalties for doctors who prescribe more than average. 10% is generous; I'd bet it's more like 5%. And I doubt you're paying full price for those anyway.

Even with the most optimistic assumptions on your part, you're free riding on 60%.
The majority of existing medicines throughout the European Union's member states remain authorised nationally
FFS, we're talking about approval of NEW DRUGS, not existing medicines. That goes through EMEA, which serves a larger market than the U.S.

Drug makers pefer our market because it has far fewer free riders.

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

Yeah, yeah, you guys are the savers of the world. You know and do everything better than us. You are the best, the greatest and the coolest and it is only you who know what is right for the world.
Dont forget that it was us who got you on the moon and who did most of your nuclear program.

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

Oh and just so I have said it:
We are not free riders.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

Skipjack wrote:Oh and just so I have said it:
We are not free riders.
Apparently you're delusional free riders with an inferiority complex.

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

You are delusional with a superiority complex.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

Skipjack wrote:You are delusional with a superiority complex.
No, we have facts. That's the difference between delusion and reality.

But of course, part of being delusional is thinking others are delusional. Thus you ignore the facts in favor of your delusion that you are not a country of parasites free riding on American free markets.

I don't blame you, it can be difficult to face harsh reality. Maybe some cheap prescription drugs can ease your pain.

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

Your so called facts are simply the personal opinions of biased people. I dont see any real facts here.
I also want to point out that the US has long been parasiting on the other countries. Only once your parasiting gave you the economic advantage, you started to turn things arround and whine about everybody else parasiting on you. To give you and example: Copyrights.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

Skipjack wrote:Your so called facts are simply the personal opinions of biased people. I dont see any real facts here.


No, price controls are a fact. Your inability to even recognize facts is practically pathological.

It's fine to be proud of Austria. It has many wonderful accomplishments. But facts are facts.
I also want to point out that the US has long been parasiting on the other countries. Only once your parasiting gave you the economic advantage, you started to turn things arround and whine about everybody else parasiting on you. To give you and example: Copyrights.
The Berne Convention? Shrug. Maybe 100 years ago that was relevant. We had Buenos Aires and UCC anyway. Anyways we're all under WTO now.

Besides, my point isn't to complain about Euros free riding on our medical treatment, or our defense, or our trade policies in general. Those may be awkward, even painful realities for you guys, but we barely notice them because we're so much wealthier anyway due the fact free markets work so much better than state control. My point is just that we can't kill the only major free market without terrible consequences for R&D.

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

Yes, but it said nowhere that these price controls result in a price that is so much lower that Austria becomes a "free rider". That is a silly assumption that you are making based on a few comments by biased people.
This is especially so since only older and long established meds are in the price controlled system anyway. The newer and more expensive meds are not. So the argument is absurd.

Well you first denied foreign authors copyrights in the US and now you are forcing everybody else to eat yours. Of course the EU assholes in the comnission are all paid off by your coroporations, so they pressed it through against the will of the senate. Had I had my say, I would have said: keep your shit, we dont need it! That would have at least given our own media some room to grow again.

The same happened with patents. Now we do have your software patents.
What a pile of shit. I would have never let that happen.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

On software patents - I agree. Copyright should be more than sufficient.

OTOH patents run out - copyright is nearly forever (in terms of technology).

OTOH software is to computers what a milling machine is to machinery. Roughly. Both control how the machine built will function. It would be odd to be able to patent the output of a milling machine and not be able to patent the functional equivalent for computers. Assuming novelty etc.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Skipjack,

Suppose I only buy auto insurance after an accident and the government insists all coverage has to be retroactive.

That is what forcing coverage for pre-existing conditions is.

What ever it is it is not any protection against losses from future unknown events. The very heart of insurance.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

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