General Fusion in the news

[mvanwink5]

I included the news quote stating that GF's demonstration plant is scheduled to be operational in 2025 because that is earlier than what I had remembered and could be earlier than others (with the possible exception of Helion and I say that because I am ignorant of Helion's project schedules).

Just to be clear, all good news on commercialization is good in my eyes, but I prefer Helion's approach because of their smaller device size and lower waste heat (5% of fusion energy). On the other hand, GF production of steam and shielding make it attractive as retrofitting to utilities. I would welcome a similar announcement from Helion that tritium processing is being developed.

All announcements are backing the view that fusion commercialization is upon us. This is not wishful imaginings.

[Skipjack]

I am pretty sure that they do have the technology to separate the Tritium from the other isotopes already.
Their patent lists a few of them:

Suitable techniques include but are not limited to cryogenic separation, mass quadrupole separation, inversion-ion cyclotron extraction, and as well as a host of standard chemical processes. Extraction and separation may be done in-situ or at an external location. In this manner, Helium-3 (e.g. 3He) and tritium may be extracted from the byproduct of a fusion reaction and stored.

[ltgbrown]

“All announcements are backing the view that fusion commercialization is upon us. This is not wishful imaginings.“ from mvanwink5

I agree! It is a very exciting time. I remember touring RPI as a senior in high school and seeing their “donut” for exploring plasma and then a demonstration of the magnetic field configuration being used by crushing a can. I ended up studying physics their partly with an eye of understanding the development of fusion technology. I also read at the time a Discover magazine article about how fusion power plants were just 50 years away. That was almost 40 years ago!

[Skipjack]

Welp, they are almost here now!
So much going on. Demonstration plant by General Fusion, first commercial fusion generators by Helion (though not for power production quite yet), LPPF is gearing up to PB11 tests, Tokamak Energy is aiming for 100 million degrees this year. And the coming years will see a lot more movement from the other players. It also seems like there is a bit of a gold rush towards fusion from investors. So things are definitely looking up. Just hope that things don't fall asleep again. The government certainly is still sleeping on it. The fusion amendment in the infrastructure bill that passed the House seems like it was not picked up by the senate
Let's hope private investors pick up the slack!

[mvanwink5]

It also seems like there is a bit of a gold rush towards fusion from investors.

SJ, I think this is exactly what is happening. You hit the nail with the hammer square on. Gruberment funding is not the key here, they missed the early boat when funding was desperately needed. What is needed is to amp up the contacts to Electric Utilities before they commit to the half and expensive measures of solar and wind (just to please institutional investors). Institutional investors should also be targeted with information, education to combat the belief that fusion is always 30 years away.

[Skipjack]

It also seems like there is a bit of a gold rush towards fusion from investors.

SJ, I think this is exactly what is happening. You hit the nail with the hammer square on. Gruberment funding is not the key here, they missed the early boat when funding was desperately needed. What is needed is to amp up the contacts to Electric Utilities before they commit to the half and expensive measures of solar and wind (just to please institutional investors). Institutional investors should also be targeted with information, education to combat the belief that fusion is always 30 years away.

I think that once at least one fusion company demonstrates at least scientific break even, the notion that fusion is forever 30 years away will collapse.
IMHO that is going to happen in the next 5 years (at the latest), maybe as early as this year. Then the flood gates will open. I think the government(s) will also realize their mistake then and will put in more funding. The best thing to make this tasty (for the US government at least) is to make a lot of nods towards national security. That always loosens the pockets here. Talk about submarines and aircraft carriers powered by fusion. Maybe also mention proliferation resistance and all that.

[mvanwink5]

Planning is longer term because of capital needed, resources lined up, orders placed. All the prototypes in progress can be fleshed out with time lines. Experts in fusion brought into contact with the E. Utility boards and their Gruberment regulatory boards. The science breakthroughs have been made, further, it is now beyond engineering details, these devices are being built. Spit polish stage is too late to bring the brass up to speed.

The projects that make the contacts early will get the contract lion share.

[mvanwink5]

Talk about submarines and aircraft carriers powered by fusion.

You would be right in a military that was not root bound into fission. We have seen, based on Polywell, that there are military brass that blocked fusion. Fission is all they can think. Utilities long ago became afraid of fission due to accidents and crushing capital overruns and delays. Small devices like Helion are just the life line they need for a 24/7 green power source.

[Skipjack]

Talk about submarines and aircraft carriers powered by fusion.

You would be right in a military that was not root bound into fission. We have seen, based on Polywell, that there are military brass that blocked fusion. Fission is all they can think. Utilities long ago became afraid of fission due to accidents and crushing capital overruns and delays. Small devices like Helion are just the life line they need for a 24/7 green power source.

Just wait until the Chinese start copying US fusion generators and putting them into their subs. The military brass will stand on their heads.

[mvanwink5]

At this point Helion is the only one that will fit, but yes, fusion power plants are superior for safety and training reasons. Perhaps also for cost reasons. Dunno about that ($) yet.

[Skipjack]

At this point Helion is the only one that will fit, but yes, fusion power plants are superior for safety and training reasons. Perhaps also for cost reasons. Dunno about that ($) yet.

ZAP's could fit too...
The advantage of Helion's reactor is that there is no noisy steam plant. It would be as quiet as a German Type 212, while being able to stay submerged (almost) forever. At 50MWe, it might even be able to match speed with an Alfa class submarine (which had 155MWt, but like 60% losses from the steam cycle).
Would likely get away with a much smaller crew and of course is a lot less problematic than a liquid metal cooled fission reactor and much cheaper to build too. Would probably also be around the same cost as a Type 212 (those complex fuel cells are not cheap). Biggest issue might be the size of the capacitor banks. If they are too big, they won't fit into a small submarine like the 212 (would likely still go into a Virginia Class sized SSN).

[crowberry]

At this point Helion is the only one that will fit, but yes, fusion power plants are superior for safety and training reasons. Perhaps also for cost reasons. Dunno about that ($) yet.

ZAP's could fit too...
The advantage of Helion's reactor is that there is no noisy steam plant. It would be as quiet as a German Type 212, while being able to stay submerged (almost) forever. At 50MWe, it might even be able to match speed with an Alfa class submarine (which had 155MWt, but like 60% losses from the steam cycle).

A pulsed fusion reactor is unlikely to be completely quiet. I have not heard Helions prototype devices firing plasma shots, but I would expect also them to make some kind of noise during the pulse.

[natebrau]

A little more news trickling in.

https://www.dezeen.com/2021/08/02/world ... nt-ala-uk/

A_La is the company which was commissioned to architect the building which will house the reactor (excuse me, "fusion generator"), they've released some new visuals about what it will look like.

[Skipjack]

Sure looks fancy...
I am sort of wondering whether all that money wouldn't be better spent on the actual research and -you know- fusion...

[Skipjack]

A pulsed fusion reactor is unlikely to be completely quiet. I have not heard Helions prototype devices firing plasma shots, but I would expect also them to make some kind of noise during the pulse.

So, I actually asked David about it and you are right. The thing can be quite loud (110 db near the power banks). Most of that noise is from (occasional?) electrical arcing, actually.
They don't need hearing protection, but I am afraid it is too loud for a military submarine...