SpaceX News

[KitemanSA]

I'm thinking more of a Falcon 9 Enhanced. The returnable F9s have three landing legs, why not have three tuned F1s that are strapped on to, or between, the legs but transfer no thrust. They go along for the ride and are equiped to fly back. All they do is transfer fuel. Unless of course it is easier to actually transfer the thrust.

[KitemanSA]

I'm thinking more of a Falcon 9 Enhanced. The returnable F9s have three landing legs, why not have three tuned F1s that are strapped on to, or between, the legs but transfer no thrust. They go along for the ride and are equiped to fly back. All they do is transfer fuel. Unless of course it is easier to actually transfer the thrust.

Oops, no, FOUR landing legs. So either 2 or 4 flyback auxiliary tanks could be used. That is even better. Using 4 would give them practice on a F9SuperHeavy. FIVE cores rather than 3.

[paperburn1]

The only other alternative I know of is the tentative ULA proposal to separate the expensive rocket engine assembly from the rest of the first stage and snag it in the air as it is falling under parachutes. A single stage to orbit or Shuttle approach allows for a wide choice of landing sites, but implementation has proven to be a disaster for SSTO and a cost disaster for the Shuttle.
Dan Tibbets

We are talking about snagging more weight than a C-130J can carry. twice the weight of a CH53-E can carry for the first stage. I do not know what the motors weight is
It would be very sporty at best; then there would be landing.
I don't know of anything on the other side of the fence that could work. Anyone?

[ladajo]

That is a lot of extra weight to boost and then decelerate for recovery landing Kite.

[kunkmiester]

SpaceX tried parachuting into the ocean. The rocket was too fragile to take the impact, even when they tried soft landing it with the engines.

The ultimate goal has always been as I understand it to recover on land eventually, the barges were first for NASA's concerns about safety, and then flexibility in landing sites.

[ladajo]

The big mystery for me right now is what happened to the barge. Not a peep anywhere that I can find. Normally, someone will even post return to port happy snaps. Nothing...

[paperburn1]

Actually it makes sense to me, this is the highest launch and the highest velocity launch. This means for ballistic recovery the first stage using minimum fuel it would require the barge to be well over 400 nautical miles offshore. Assuming the barge makes 5-ish knots it should take about 3.3 days for it to make port. So this means we should hear something this evening or probably tomorrow morning

[ladajo]

I know they tow it, but fair point, I hadn't thought that deep about tow speed.
You are right, it would take them roughly 3 days at 5kts made good. Plus need to add in some drama time, like coming alongside, clean up/stabilize deck debris (if there is any), wind/sea state, etc.
We may not hear anything until Tuesday night or Wednesday am, if they pull in Tuesday late evening (based on making up Tow Saturday around 7 or 8 pm).

[KitemanSA]

That is a lot of extra weight to boost and then decelerate for recovery landing Kite.

What is?

[ladajo]

Adding extra "pony" boosters per your post above.

[paperburn1]

And the competition begins.
According to a recent economic analysis by REL – but with some backstopping from independent consultancy London Economics – Skylon can get a pound of mass to orbit for between $686 and $1,230 per pound, depending on how optimistic the forecast. This is comparable to SpaceX’s currently advertised rate of about $2,100 per pound for the Falcon 9 and $770 for the upcoming Falcon Heavy.

That would be a huge savings over the Space Shuttle, which was about $10,000, according to NASA.
http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/8/111746 ... propulsion

[ladajo]

Is that the SpaceX we are not recovering/reusing boosters yet pricing? As I recall, Musk had a $10/lb target price back in the day.
Either way, $700ish for Falcon Heavy without recovery is purdy darn good. If you can cut that in half or more again with recovery on heavy lift, "oh my".

The article was not clear in this regard.

[Giorgio]

Skylon can get a pound of mass to orbit for between $686 and $1,230 per pound, depending on how optimistic the forecast.

Skylon is several years (if not a decade) away from his first commercial launch, so it's hard to even foresee what type of competition they will offer once they are commercially ready. For what is worth, 10 years ago SpaceX was having similar forecasts when they started.
Anyhow, the sooner we get some competition, the faster the price will drop. And I might still make in time to actually experience a space trip before I am too old after all!

[paperburn1]

yes those prices are the throw away prices.
The cost depends on the rocket, and on the percent capacity of said rocket, but here's a few numbers for you, cost in U.S. dollars/kg to LEO (Wikipedia*). It should be noted that not all rocket prices are publicly available, in fact, most aren't.
Falcon Heavy: $2200
Falcon 9 v 1.1- $4,109
DNEPR- $3,784
Ariane 5- $10,476
Delta IV- $13,072
Atlas V- $13,182

[ladajo]

Thw Falcon numbers seem a little high based on other sources.