Latest drug addict loons.

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MSimon
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by MSimon »

GIThruster wrote:
williatw wrote:“Who would be crazy enough to take an entire 40-pounder of Everclear or overproof rum and guzzle the whole thing?” Briere asked.
This is obviously a fallacious comparison because the two are completely unalike in how they act. And in fact, if people could drown the equivalent of a 40-pounder of Everclear, we can be assured they would. Now that Cannabis has been so refined, and the oil is readily available, and e-cigs or vaping is so popular, we can rest assured that people will indeed be taking MASSIVE doses and the consequences will certainly follow.
The consequences? Sleep. No one has ever died from an overdose of cannabis. It was estimated by DEA Judge Young in 1988 that the LD50 was about 40,000 lbs smoked in 15 minutes. Even if concentrated and ingested orally that is going to be 400 lbs of THC. Assuming 1% THC cannabis. Now even if he was off by a factor of 100. It is still 4 lbs of 100% THC. You'd never get it all down before falling asleep.

OTOH 1,000 people a year die of alcohol overdoses in America. You ought to stay away from alcohol. It can kill you.
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paperburn1
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by paperburn1 »

I do not know where you get you facts but it is well established that LD50 of the "weed" currently on the market is estimated at 1Kg in a 24 hour period. That of course precludes any "alteration" done by the manufacturer .
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

MSimon
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by MSimon »

paperburn1 wrote:I do not know where you get you facts but it is well established that LD50 of the "weed" currently on the market is estimated at 1Kg in a 24 hour period. That of course precludes any "alteration" done by the manufacturer .
I told you. The hearing by DEA Judge Francis Young in 1988.

In any case 1 Kg in 24 hours is going to be tough. Packaged edibles they sell in Colorado is 10 mg doses, 20 doses per package. That is 2 g THC.

An article in Boing Boing on edibles suggested starting with 10 mg THC. Or less. To get a feel for it.

http://boingboing.net/2014/11/18/everyt ... ow-ab.html

===================================

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v14/n599/a06.html

Pubdate: Thu, 17 Jul 2014
Source: Westword (Denver, CO)
Copyright: 2014 Village Voice Media
Author: William Breathes

If by "limits" you mean how much weed an otherwise healthy person would have to ingest to literally die from THC, it's surprisingly less than you'd think - but even so, you'd never be able to come close to doing it. Allow us to drop some science. There's a thing known as the "median lethal dose" for pretty much all foreign chemicals we humans use and occasionally put in our bodies; it's called an LD50 rating. Basically, it's how much of something someone would have to ingest to die at least 50 percent of the time. ( LD stands for "lethal dose." )

For THC, there are varying figures, ranging from 1,260 milligrams of THC per kilogram of body weight down to 666 mg/kg. Even going with the lowest figure, a 175-pound man would have to consume more than 53 whole grams of pure THC all at once. And pure THC isn't something you are going to find in even the purest shatter oils and waxes produced. If we're talking commercially produced edibles, then you would probably die from an overdose of salt ( 3,000 mg/kg ) or sugar ( 1,100 mg/kg ) before even coming close to the threshold for marijuana.

Need more perspective? Caffeine has an LD50 of 192 mg/kg, and nicotine is around 60 mg/kg. Alcohol doesn't necessarily have an LD50 that translates well, but if just .4 percent of your roughly 160 ounces of blood contains booze, you're not likely to wake up. Even synthetic, marijuana-derived pharmaceuticals have higher LD50 ratings than natural marijuana.

Now, if you mean can you eat enough to get sick or have a bad time? Absolutely - it happens to the best of us. I have gotten sick - spinning head, a sinking feeling in my stomach - from a too-strong edible ( or seven ). Or maybe it's just an overdose of chocolate.... In any case, do I suggest finding your limits that way? No. And unfortunately, I can't tell you how much you'd have to eat before you'd boot your lunch - nor do I suggest finding out the hard way. Stick with smaller doses and increase slowly each time you consume until you find a comfortable level. And if you ever are truly concerned about eating more pot food while you've got the munchies, we advise taking a walk to the nearest 7-Eleven and going for Cheetos instead.
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MSimon
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by MSimon »

paperburn1 wrote:I do not know where you get you facts but it is well established that LD50 of the "weed" currently on the market is estimated at 1Kg in a 24 hour period. That of course precludes any "alteration" done by the manufacturer .
And in case you missed it. The reason for high THC oils:

THC has anti-cancer properties. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tghUh4ubbg

In the video (30 seconds is all you need) he cures his skin cancer with cannabis oil. 94% THC wouldn't surprise me. But it does make Prohibitionists crazy. Excellent. And best yet? They don't even have to use it to get the effect. A VERY powerful drug. Heh.
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MSimon
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by MSimon »

And BTW D,

Prohibition has not stopped any of the bad stuff you have been posting. But it does support criminals. What advantage do you get out of that?
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paperburn1
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by paperburn1 »

Simon The point is use vetted science if you want to push an agenda not BS, LD50 of weed has been known for years. by quoting someone who is obviously wrong it make you look untrustworthy, and given to deception to get your way.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

MSimon
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by MSimon »

paperburn1 wrote:Simon The point is use vetted science if you want to push an agenda not BS, LD50 of weed has been known for years. by quoting someone who is obviously wrong it make you look untrustworthy, and given to deception to get your way.
Well I have not looked it up since the 90s. Nor have I come across any recent information. So I looked it up and corrected my view. BTW your number of 1Kg is wrong according to the evidence I have posted. The actual number is on the order of 50 to 100 grams of 100% THC. Which is 5,000 to 10,000 times the psychoactive dose (10 mg). Compare that with alcohol where the intoxicating dose (.08% BAC) is only 5 to 10 times less than the lethal dose (.4% to .8% BAC).

You might want to take your own advice. And not be pushing some BS.

Or you could just deal with the fact that on occasion I will make mistakes for various reasons and will correct those mistakes when I'm convinced of error.

In that regard this evidentary hearing on medical cannabis might be of interest. The government witness gets shredded.

http://edca.typepad.com/files/doc-378-- ... -brief.pdf

Basically, many of the tropes currently used by prohibitionists get worked over. Funny is they discuss how alcohol kills brain cells and cannabis doesn't. I'm only 1/2 way through the brief so there is probably more amusement in store.

This is the post where I found the brief:

http://edca.typepad.com/eastern_distric ... -law-.html

Or if you want to follow the whole case:

http://edca.typepad.com/eastern_distric ... uana-case/
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GIThruster
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by GIThruster »

williatw wrote:Legal Cannabis is subject to regulations on the concentration (refinement) available to the public. Legal providers have an enormous incentive to follow the law. Illegal Cannabis is not subject to any regulation; illegal dope pushers don't care about following laws/regs; how could they and be illegal providers? Prohibition won't/didn't prevent people from partaking of these "MASSIVE doses" of Cannabis any more than it prevented/prevents people from taking massive doses of Crack Cocaine (or powder Cocaine).
I hardly think that matters. In its natural form, Cannabis is now 30X more potent than it was 35 years ago. This is more than the difference between wine (7.5%) and most distilled liquors (40%). One small joint is way more than enough to get a handful of people much more intoxicated than is safe for them to drive, which is one reason CO and WA now have the explosive results in DUI arrests. Was last week? the numbers were released that show more people in CO are being arrested for DUI for Cannabis now, than there are for alcohol. It took almost no time to start to see the statistical results of legalization.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

MSimon
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by MSimon »

GIThruster wrote:
williatw wrote:Legal Cannabis is subject to regulations on the concentration (refinement) available to the public. Legal providers have an enormous incentive to follow the law. Illegal Cannabis is not subject to any regulation; illegal dope pushers don't care about following laws/regs; how could they and be illegal providers? Prohibition won't/didn't prevent people from partaking of these "MASSIVE doses" of Cannabis any more than it prevented/prevents people from taking massive doses of Crack Cocaine (or powder Cocaine).
I hardly think that matters. In its natural form, Cannabis is now 30X more potent than it was 35 years ago. This is more than the difference between wine (7.5%) and most distilled liquors (40%). One small joint is way more than enough to get a handful of people much more intoxicated than is safe for them to drive, which is one reason CO and WA now have the explosive results in DUI arrests. Was last week? the numbers were released that show more people in CO are being arrested for DUI for Cannabis now, than there are for alcohol. It took almost no time to start to see the statistical results of legalization.
So do people down whiskey the way they do wine? No. Why? Well you can feel the effects and you calibrate the dose to the desired effect. Stronger pot makes no difference. Same reason. It is called titration of dose. There is quite a bit of literature on it. You might want to look it up.

And yes. DUI cannabis is up. And fatal traffic accidents are down. An effect noted by time magazine some years ago.

http://healthland.time.com/2011/12/02/w ... ic-deaths/

The effect is caused by people switching to a drug that doesn't kill brain cells. From alcohol to cannabis.

Thing is the scares no longer work. People are having actual experience with the drug despite Prohibition. And they find out "Reefer Madness" is straight up lies. Top to bottom. Beginning to end. And so now what ever truth you have will be drowned by, "But you have told me so many lies before. Why should I believe you now?"

I look forward to seeing Republicans crushed in an anti-Prohibition election. And funny thing is I like most of the Republican Program. If only they would give up Prohibition Stupidity. The current one doesn't work any better than the previous one.

I keep track of these things and I'm pretty sure between 4 and 8 states will legalize in the 2016 election. Some even before then. When the tide turns wise politics turns with it and focuses on the critical stuff. Taxes, regulation, spending. Prohibition is not worth keeping if it prevents attention to or distracts from the core issues.

Remember 1932.
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Diogenes
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by Diogenes »

Another one of those innocent victims which the Libertarians say doesn't exist.



'I am not a monster': Gay foster dad, who left baby daughter to die in hot car as he smoked weed, sobs and begs for freedom in court




Image


A Kansas man who left his 10-month-old foster daughter to die in a hot car while he and his partner smoked weed and watched 'Game of Thrones,' has been sentenced to 32 months in prison
Schroeder revealed to investigators that he and Jackson smoked marijuana that Jackson had earlier picked up that day, according to the affidavit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... adopt.html
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GIThruster
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by GIThruster »

This brings up one of the other issues with Cannabis we seldom discuss--that it hugely and negatively affects memory. It is almost believable that the person could claim he "forgot" his daughter in the car, just because Cannabis does so powerfully destroy memory. The memory deficits directly caused by Cannabis are so severe, they show up in tests of cognitive function as a general loss of intelligence by users. No matter how you decide to evaluate the details though, Cannabis makes people act irresponsibly in ways that far surpass alcohol. The drugs have almost nothing in common.

What I don't get is how this guy got only 32 months. He should have gotten 10 years minimum.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

MSimon
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by MSimon »

We are so lucky alcohol users are saints and never start fights and never abandon or beat their kids. And fortunately alcohol use prevents gayness too. It is why they don't use the stuff.

Because of that cannabis users must be persecuted and alcohol users nominated for sainthood.

OTOH if you ask - most cops would rather arrest pot heads than drunks. You know any cops D? Try giving a few of them that question and see what answers you get.
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williatw
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by williatw »

Diogenes wrote:Another one of those innocent victims which the Libertarians say doesn't exist.

So forty plus years into your beloved WOD situations like this continue to happen which somehow you interpret as a justification for continuing the WOD. Wonder what would happen if pot were legalized and regulated; maybe as to THC content and contaminates that maybe just maybe produce the level of deleterious effects you are showing? Wonder if 0.74% THC (where it was before your WOD got into swing) legal pot vs >15% THC illegal pot would have the same level of deleterious effects on memory and brain function? To say there is no difference between 0.74% THC and 20% THC as to deleterious effects would be like saying there is no difference between an 18yr old drinking "3.2 beer" and chugging Jack Daniels; and I not even getting into whatever contaminates were probably in that illegal pot are baby abandoner was smoking. That’s the thing with a legal product; you can actually regulate its potency; bet you could find similar stories of “insane” behavior like this happening during alcohol prohibition when people drank “white lightning” that was similarly contaminated with god knows what.

GIThruster
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by GIThruster »

williatw wrote:That’s the thing with a legal product; you can actually regulate its potency; bet you could find similar stories of “insane” behavior like this happening during alcohol prohibition when people drank “white lightning” that was similarly contaminated with god knows what.
Yes, it's pretty easy to trace the toxic effects of Moonshine sold to the masses during prohibition, that had methanol in it in sufficient quantity that it often caused people to go blind. How does this alter the fact that Cannabis makes people nuts? It's an hallucinogen. Do you understand? An HALLUCINOGEN. It separates people from reality. It makes them into chronic liars. It turns normal people into thieves. It makes people completely unrealistic about life and what should be their expectations. It makes them forget things. It reduces intelligence measurably and immediately, even after the effects wear off. It destroys ambition. DO YOU UNDERSTAND, that the signs of this drug use, are nothing like the signs of alcoholism? Alcoholic teenagers do not suddenly start lying about everything in their lives and the difference is not in its prohibition. The difference is in the drug itself.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

MSimon
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by MSimon »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_hallucinosis
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/289848-overview
Alcohol-related psychosis is a secondary psychosis that manifests as prominent hallucinations and delusions occurring in a variety of alcohol-related conditions. For patients with alcohol use disorder, previously known as alcohol abuse and alcohol dependence, psychosis can occur during phases of acute intoxication or withdrawal, with or without delirium tremens.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science ... hings.html
A few glasses of alcohol - enough to reach the drink-drive limit - are enough to rob drinkers of their fears so they are more likely to take risks, concludes a brain scan study that provides a vivid insight into "Dutch courage."

The Government's Know Your Limits TV anti drunkenness advertisement shows a young man, imagining he is dressed as a superhero, who climbs some scaffolding but slips and falls.

As he lies broken on the ground, a voiceover states: "Too much alcohol makes you feel invincible when you're most vulnerable."

Today, in the Journal of Neuroscience, a brain imaging study reveals why people are more prepared to take risks when they are intoxicated, marking the first study of its kind on alcohol's effect on the response of neuronal circuits to threats.
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