Curing aging and cannabis.

[Betruger]

The war on drugs is a war on the immediate cure for cancer. It is not quite over. So it IS a 21st century issue.

But no matter. It is not your issue. It is mine. And that seems to be more than enough.

20th meaning I don't see it lasting long enough into the 21st.

Large pharma is not interested.

Ha! How will they not be interested once it's profitable?

[williatw]

Large pharma is not interested.

Ha! How will they not be interested once it's profitable?

This perhaps is instructive:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apo-A1_Milano

A mutant form of "good" cholesterol that removed plaque from arteries, basically reversing the process that put the plaque on the arteries in the 1st place.

http://content.time.com/time/subscriber ... 54,00.html

Health: Drano For The Heart
An experimental drug no one expected to work is surprisingly effective at rooting out cholesterol
By Michael D. Lemonick Monday, Nov. 17, 2003

When they signed up for this week's annual conference of the American Heart Association in Orlando, Fla., thousands of doctors, scientists and pharmaceutical-company reps knew that they would be hearing about the very latest research into the causes of heart disease and the potential treatments. What they probably didn't suspect was that the meeting rooms and hallways would be abuzz with news that broke before the gathering even began--news that may signal an entirely new approach to fighting the nation's leading cause of death.

By infusing patients with an experimental drug, reported Dr. Steven Nissen of the Cleveland Clinic in last week's Journal of the American Medical Association, he and his colleagues reduced the fatty arterial plaque that triggers most heart attacks by an average of 4.2%--about 10 times better than statins, the most effective drugs now on the market, and in the almost unbelievably short period of just five weeks. With only 47 patients, the study was too small to be definitive, but, says Dr. Daniel Rader, the University of Pennsylvania cardiologist who wrote an accompanying editorial in J.A.M.A., "it's very exciting for the field. It's something that I think no one expected. It really has everyone scratching their heads."

Sounds exciting right? How come nothing came of it...well from the 1st link:

Hoping to develop a more effective treatment than their current product Lipitor, Pfizer purchased and internalized Esperion shortly before JAMA published the results of the Apo A-1 Milano trial.[citation needed]

Currently, no drugs based on ApoA-1 Milano are commercially available. Rights to ApoA-1 Milano were acquired in 2003 by Pfizer. Clinically known as ETC-216, Pfizer did not move trials forward, probably because the complex protein is very expensive to produce and must be administered intravenously, limiting its application compared to oral medications

In other words when Pfizer (big pharma) allegedly encountered the road block they abandoned all interest...couldn't be because it competed with their existing statin drugs like Lipitor could it? This would literally remove plaque from blood vessels effectively presumably curing heart disease. Not like statin drugs that merely lower cholesterol, (not necessarily preventing heart disease) and only as long as you keep taking it. One (the cure) would eliminate their source of revenue ultimately the other (statins) an open ended source of revenue.

Perhaps this will bear fruit at some point also from 1st link:

Subsequent Development
Pfizer, after the CETP agent torcetrapib failed in a large human safety trial, decided to exit the cardiovascular market in 2008, though they continue to market Lipitor aggressively.

Esperion, divested by Pfizer in 2008,[10] is back in business and continue to work on HDL mimetic therapies.[11] The company established an agreement with TransGenRx as a protein source.[12]

Calgary-based SemBioSys Genetics Inc. was a biotechnology company that was using Safflower to develop commercial quantities of ApoA-1 Milano.[citation needed] On October 11, 2011 SemBioSys Genetics signed a multi-product commercialization and platform collaboration agreement with Tasly Pharmaceuticals of Tianjin China. In May 2012, SemBioSys terminated its operations and announced that Tasly had terminated their agreement.[13]

On 22 December 2009 The Medicines Company [1] announced it had entered into an exclusive worldwide licensing agreement with Pfizer Inc. for ApoA-I Milano which it then renamed MDCO-216.[14][15]

On the 12th of July 2010 The Medicines Company signed a pharmaceutical development and manufacturing contract with OctoPlus (Netherlands-based drug delivery and drug development company) to perform process development and clinical manufacturing of MDCO-216.[16] The Medicines Company expects to commence clinical studies sometime in 2011. [17]

Cardigant Medical is a Los Angeles based biotech company currently working to commercialize ApoA-1 Milano to treat various vascular diseases

This might generate more interest in them for the ApoA-I Milano:

Loss of Lipitor patent cuts Pfizer net income almost in half

NEW YORK (AP) – Pfizer (PFE) said Tuesday that its fourth-quarter profit fell by half due to one-time charges and a drop in U.S. revenue, which was hurt by blockbuster cholesterol drug Lipitor losing patent protection

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/co ... 52898124/1

[Betruger]

Seems a lot like petrol Sheikh neglecting to keep a finger in inevitable alternatives like fusion etc. I can't see how Big Pharma couldn't convert at least some of their capital into life extension therapy capital. Including weaseling their way into a comparable majority position for "regulating" said therapy.

[MSimon]

The #1 thing that needs to be done for life extension right now is a cure for cancer....

<Insert rest of rant here>

[mvanwink5]

The problem is disease theory is 20th century. Until the 21st century and pyro sequencing and pathogen detection by their DNA signature rather than petri dish cultivation and optical microscope, the human body was thought to be nearly sterile (free of pathogens). Once the new molecular microscope became available in the 21st century, suddenly, OMG, these pathogen free human bodies were seen to be loaded with colonies of bacteria, bacteria that can't be cultured in a petri dish.

So, "auto immune" disease, chronic disease, etc. which had been thought of as caused by genetic defects in the human body, well maybe it is caused by undetected bacteria, bacteria not detected in the 20th century, but now detectable in the 21st century. However, anyone here think that medical theory has caught up with new knowledge? LOL Wait 50 years.

Drugs from the pharma industry and prescribed by bought and paid for AMA certified and policed doctors are all palliative drugs, meaning feel good drugs. And how do you get a cure if the cause is pathogens and the treatment is palliative (and immune system suppressive)?

And cause of cancer? It is a well known mechanism that pathogens can cause cancer.

How many here on this site know of the advancements in pathogen detection and what has been found in the human body, this century? I have seen no one reference this issue, no one. Educate yourselves, don't expect to hear this from your friendly pharma industry driven feel good medical services.

There's my rant.

[Betruger]

The #1 thing that needs to be done for life extension right now is a cure for cancer

And you know this because you've studied all seven categories of senescence to make that conclusion. De Grey and the dozens and dozens of people on anti-aging research, incl George Church, Venter, etc? Regenerative scientists? What do they know - they're all just blind to the magic bullet that are cannabinoids.

You also can make a definitive case for curing cancer being a higher priority than snapping people out of the death trance that they've been in since basically the dawn of mankind, which could give all aging research the budget it needs. Along with a pretty significant culture change.

[MSimon]

The #1 thing that needs to be done for life extension right now is a cure for cancer

And you know this because you've studied all seven areas of senescence to make that conclusion. You also can make a definitive case for curing cancer being a higher priority than snapping people out of the death trance that they've been in since basically the dawn of mankind.

Well cancer shortens quite a few lives. And with what we know and can do today we could be curing every cancer in the US in 6 months time. With plants.

You get that done and you will have the constituency you need to tackle what ever you think should be next on your list.

You may know the science well but your understanding of how to get political backing for what you want is extremely weak. And politics is not just government.

BTW there are already rumblings among the cannabis folks about tailoring the cannabis to each individual. Tailored medicine. Isn't that what you want for life extension? You might try making allies instead of antagonizing them.

As of this moment (unless you have changed your mind) I have more chance of accomplishing your goals than you do.

[williatw]

Well cancer shortens quite a few lives. And with what we know and can do today we could be curing every cancer in the US in 6 months time. With plants.

You get that done and you will have the constituency you need to tackle what ever you think should be next on your list.

I seem to recall reading that if you cured all forms of cancer the mean live expectancy would increase only about 2-4 years; by contrast if you cured all forms of cardiovascular disease/stroke the average life expectancy would increase by about 13 years.

You may know the science well but your understanding of how to get political backing for what you want is extremely weak. And politics is not just government

Yes and that is the rub; billions upon billions are spent on cancer research going back decades; the public because of their fear of cancer pressures politicians who respond by spending copious amounts of money. Anti-ageing whose potential dwarfs that of cancer/heart disease research combined suffers from the "giggle factor", the public still doesn't take them seriously if they have even heard of them at all. Bill Andrews of Sierra Sciences laments if only he had adequate funding he is confident he could have telomere rebuilding treatments available for humans in a few years after getting such funding (low millions); as it is Sierra Sciences is barely limping along, in spite of sound science. Politics as usual trumps science. You are right; if you could convince enough people that pot cures cancer that would be the death knell for pot prohibition; and they would be throwing money at you for R and D.

[MSimon]

http://rockford-for-safe-access.blogspo ... ation.html.

http://www.medicalmarijuanainc.com/inde ... ar-disease

Two to four years is a start. It also increases funds available and makes allies. So the life extension people should be shouting we can extend life by curing cancer with cannabis.

Yeah. It is not the best you can do. But it attracts headlines. And it is a start.

[MSimon]

I just got an e-mail from a guy who is studying cannabinoids for life extension. If he sends me some good links I'll repost them here. BTW he volunteered the information. It was unprompted and came from a thread discussing women.

Here is a part of his e-mail:

Do you know about LDN (low dose naltrexone) therapy? The idea is that one takes a low dose of an orally active opiate antagonist at bedtime, and it wears off before dawn. The body responds by upregulating endorphin activity. It has shown good success in treating MS and AIDS. As you know, opiod receptors are involved in immune function.

Unfortunately, the cannabinoid receptor antagonist rimonabant has been withdrawn from the market. International Anti-Aging Systems no longer sells it. Not surprisingly, it had psychiatric adverse effects including depression and suicide. That's disappointing, I was hoping to try an endocannabinoid upregulation strategy similar to LDN with it, but I didn't buy it in time.

Do you know of any other cannabinoid antagonists besides cannabidiol that might be used for an upregulation strategy?

[Betruger]

The #1 thing that needs to be done for life extension right now is a cure for cancer

And you know this because you've studied all seven areas of senescence to make that conclusion. You also can make a definitive case for curing cancer being a higher priority than snapping people out of the death trance that they've been in since basically the dawn of mankind.

Well cancer shortens quite a few lives. And with what we know and can do today we could be curing every cancer in the US in 6 months time. With plants.

You get that done and you will have the constituency you need to tackle what ever you think should be next on your list.

Ok, that was too cryptic. Michael: are you seriously saying that if you're going to be campaigning to demystify cannabinoids, you might not as well be demystifying aging altogether? When you keep calling cannabinoids "your" issue, and aging "someone else's" issue when they argue it, it starts to sound like that really is your agenda. Less the first principle that all suffering, and aging as the chief cause within which reside as subcategories cancer and other cannabinoid targets, and more cannabinoids as your unconditional pet fav.

It's already an uphill fight, but on top of that you add the burden of cannabinoids' stigma. Regardless how undue that stigma. The better plan is to reduce that uphill incline. Like Williatw said.

You may know the science well but your understanding of how to get political backing for what you want is extremely weak. And politics is not just government.

BTW there are already rumblings among the cannabis folks about tailoring the cannabis to each individual. Tailored medicine. Isn't that what you want for life extension? You might try making allies instead of antagonizing them.

As of this moment (unless you have changed your mind) I have more chance of accomplishing your goals than you do.

I reckon you antagonize prospective help more than you realize.
I really don't care about political activism at this point. I want to figure out the fundamental first. People's aversion to a cure for aging. The politics of that are a consequential technical problem, not the underlying philosophical engine. Fundamental absurdity needs to be dispelled for what it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhBkC6B9I2U

The you versus me, my issue vs your issue, etc thing is just a red herring. In effect it doesnt matter how big your rhetorical trout. You sometimes gotta keep it in your pants and not slap people in the face with it if you want to avoid antagonizing. Hammer, nails.

[williatw]

One-on-One: an investigative interview with Aubrey de Grey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkBfT_EPBIo

[MSimon]

Betruger,

I probably should be clearer. My PRIORITY issue.

Cannabinoids only have stigma among fossils. I don't care about fossils. They are dying at the rate of 1 million a year. This is probably the last election where they can swing anything. 2016 will be a new era and 2020 will be a different world. The fossils are not ready for it. It doesn't matter.

Denial of reality only gets you so far.

There are a LOT of cannabinoid activists. If you want to change things you enlist them. But you might want to get a move on before some one else enlists them.

BTW people who know me well call me Simon. Distant acquaintances refer to me as Michael. Far distant acquaintances call me Mike. When I was growing up I was Big Simon (6' 1 1/2" - 186.69 cm) my brother was Little Simon (6' - 182.88 cm). Dad was just Simon. Other that my wife (5' 6") and my daughter (6') I am now the shrimp in the family. #1 son 6' 5" - #2 son 6' 4" - #3 son 6' 4" . Their friends all call them (the boys) Simon. It runs in the family.

[williatw]

I don't care about fossils. They are dying at the rate of 1 million a year. This is probably the last election where they can swing anything. 2016 will be a new era and 2020 will be a different world. The fossils are not ready for it. It doesn't matter.

Kinda hope they don't develop SENS too soon for that reason...but hopefully soon enough to benefit us. Although at one point he (De Grey) has predicted that most likely the 1st human to live to 150 years is probably alive now and only a few years older than the 1st human to live to 1000 years probably is. Something about the exponentially increasing decrepitude of aging versus when the tech is available and ready to correct the damage. They sort of touched on human augmentation in the above link (toward the end), but only lightly; seems to be something De Grey hasn't thought about much, suppose he looks at it one step at a time. Given the ability to repair/replace augmentation is inevitable; your new eyes see better (than your originals ever did), your new knee joints work better; lungs, heart, kidneys, muscles, etc. similarly improved. Ultimately dove-tailing at some point into some kind of whole body replacement, with either brain stem transplant (after removing/replacing senescent cells); or some kind of downloading if that ever works out. Still if one could slowly replace senescent cells in the brain over time with newer upgraded cells; the sky is the limit.

[MSimon]

I don't care about fossils. They are dying at the rate of 1 million a year. This is probably the last election where they can swing anything. 2016 will be a new era and 2020 will be a different world. The fossils are not ready for it. It doesn't matter.

Kinda hope they don't develop SENS too soon for that reason...but hopefully soon enough to benefit us.

That is kinda funny. Extensive use of cannabinoids would greatly reduce their rate of passing. I would so like to be around when the history of this Prohibition starts getting written. There is a good chance I'll be around for the early histories - 2024 - when the memories of he war are still fresh.

What wonders me is the politicians in America. The Democrats are just starting - on a national level to give up the stigma. But not in any kind of concerted way. On the R side we have the Pauls - father and son - and Rand looks to be ahead of all the other pols on either side of the aisle. On top of that he has a medical background so he can get the research that has been done and is being done.

Speaking of research - it looks like the DEA has a plan for extending its life -

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/0 ... 68647.html

"NIDA recently notified the DEA that it required additional supplies of marijuana to be manufactured in 2014 to provide for current and anticipated research efforts involving marijuana," reads a recent Federal Register's statement from the DEA.

The statement goes on to specify a production quota of 650,000 grams of pot for the current year.

The DEA decided to grant NIDA access to more marijuana "in order to provide a continuous and uninterrupted supply" of cannabis for research, according to the statement, which also says that the federal government was "unaware" of NIDA's need for additional marijuana when the initial production quota of 21 kg was set in 2013.

I wonder what is up with that? Drug companies have a plan to patent individual molecules and the DEA will be enforcers of the patents? Because by now the fiction that cannabis is not medicine is laughable.