Pretty soon there won't be any crime in Colorado at all.

[mvanwink5]

Diogenes

The damage caused by not having a drug war is worse, but nobody ever thinks along those lines because Libertarians are incessantly pointing out all the abuses which have occurred in the drug war. (Which really isn't a War. For a real drug war, see Singapore.)
For real world experimental evidence of what occurs in the absence of a drug war, see China.

That is the central disagreement, that the only solution to drug use is police action by the state. There are civil ways to deal with drugs, it is a false choice to say that state run criminal law, police enforcement, and incarceration by jail is the only true choice for opposing drugs use.

I wonder how much culture plays in Singapore? And there is always Mao's solution, line em up against the wall for a bit of target practice. That would also work to lower healthcare costs. With a billion people...

No, it is a matter of safety that employers will have a large say on drug use, economics will be the sane driving force. Then there are the religious forces. As for the medical issues that lead to drug use, the medical industry is hobbled by the state.

Still, I appreciate where your heart is on the matter and realize that you aren't callused against the collateral damage. You just don't see other solutions as effective and see great tragedy by drug abuse. My point is there is a non simplistic multi pointed solution to take the problem down to size without the collateral damage. Furthermore, when has politician driven solutions ever not ended in a mess as the WOD has devolved?
Best regards

[MSimon]

mvanwink5,

We do know quite a bit about drug abuse. We know its main cause is PTSD and the main cause of that in America is child abuse. The solution is long term (i.e. you are not going to help those who currently use), but what needs to be attended to is child abuse.

The trouble is that a police state of the magnitude required will not be tolerated and an educational campaign is slow. But the trouble with that is that we have yet to start.

I mean seriously have you heard anything stupider than a general policy of punishing people with PTSD?

[mvanwink5]

The problem is the medical industry has become treatment by palliation, doctor feel good, crony Pharma - FDA Prog dream. Treatment for cure has been abandoned, medical conferences have become nothing but Pharma run vacations. When Europe's socialist medicine becomes the place where innovation takes place you know the Prog cronies have hobnailed American medicine. It is no wonder that desperate sufferers turn to illegal drugs.

But the drug issue is not the "one thing." If my 30 years of engineering experience has beat one thing into my head it is that the problem cause is never the "one thing." And line em up and shoot em, or throw the evil druggies in a deep dark prison cell with big bubba, then let em out with no economic prospects is certainly not the sane solution.

You want a non drug partial solution to PTSD? I know of one you have never heard of, but "modern medicine" based on 125 year old Koch's postulates won't recognize the cause or the solution. The point is to winnow the problem down, and avoid the collateral damage open the door with a chain saw type solution.

Progs have only one go-to solution for all problems, the hammer of gubermant wielded by bureaucrats that answer to politicians who serve cronies or themselves.

How is that for a rant?

[Diogenes]

This, if it becomes common knowledge could totally screw with the Republicans:

Republican big money donors torture children for profit - scroll down for the good stuff. BTW they are doing it with Medicaid money.

Simon, I see your headline and the only thing I think is you've simply lost it.


I will not even look at your link. It might as well be Elder of Zion crap.

[Diogenes]

Diogenes

The damage caused by not having a drug war is worse, but nobody ever thinks along those lines because Libertarians are incessantly pointing out all the abuses which have occurred in the drug war. (Which really isn't a War. For a real drug war, see Singapore.)
For real world experimental evidence of what occurs in the absence of a drug war, see China.

That is the central disagreement, that the only solution to drug use is police action by the state. There are civil ways to deal with drugs, it is a false choice to say that state run criminal law, police enforcement, and incarceration by jail is the only true choice for opposing drugs use.

And what "Civil Way" do you perceive as workable against drugs and addiction? From my perspective this is like saying there is a civil way to deal with ISIS. Not seeing it.

The primary purpose of government is protecting it's people from threats, especially external ones. That is what it exists to do.

I wonder how much culture plays in Singapore? And there is always Mao's solution, line em up against the wall for a bit of target practice. That would also work to lower healthcare costs. With a billion people...

No, it is a matter of safety that employers will have a large say on drug use, economics will be the sane driving force.

What need have drug addicts for a job when government will support them?

Then there are the religious forces.

Which are effectively nonexistent. Might as well wish on a rabbit's foot.

As for the medical issues that lead to drug use, the medical industry is hobbled by the state.

Still, I appreciate where your heart is on the matter and realize that you aren't callused against the collateral damage. You just don't see other solutions as effective and see great tragedy by drug abuse. My point is there is a non simplistic multi pointed solution to take the problem down to size without the collateral damage. Furthermore, when has politician driven solutions ever not ended in a mess as the WOD has devolved?
Best regards

Well thank you. I have noted that the War on Drugs has been devolving into a serious of ever more egregious abuses, but so has abuses from every other aspect of government as well, so i'm not sure that WOD abuses are an outlier. The whole D*mn system is falling apart, and for the same reason.


Now what would that reason be? Well i'm agnostic, but I have to say that the words of Alexander Sozinietzin seem sort of profound.








" More than half a century ago, while I was still a child, I recall hearing a number of older people offer the following explanation for the great disasters that had befallen Russia: Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened.

Since then I have spent well-nigh fifty years working on the history of our Revolution; in the process I have read hundreds of books, collected hundreds of personal testimonies, and have already contributed eight volumes of my own toward the effort of clearing away the rubble left by that upheaval. But if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous Revolution that swallowed up some sixty million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat: Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened."

[MSimon]

This, if it becomes common knowledge could totally screw with the Republicans:

Republican big money donors torture children for profit - scroll down for the good stuff. BTW they are doing it with Medicaid money.

Simon, I see your headline and the only thing I think is you've simply lost it.

I will not even look at your link. It might as well be Elder of Zion crap.

Well you can do your own research. it is about - Mel Sembler - and his - Straight Inc - which was sued out of business for torturing children. Mel is a big wheel in the campaign against Medical Cannabis in Florida. It is all open record stuff.

Now Mel has recently made a name for himself in Florida as an anti. So I thought I'd pass the information on to those who could use it. Well guess what? They already have the info. I was told I was at least two weeks out of date. Now I was not informed of any plans but who could resist using the information in a political campaign? And the Democrats don't even have to touch it. They can leave it to the pro-pot folks if they want.

If they tar Rick Scott with his association to Sembler the odds of the Democrat winning improve greatly.

And suppose they do it in Florida to gain national traction?

Republican big money donors torture children for profit

What do you think that will do to your Party? I've been warning you about this for years. (Not this particular but generally).

If I was you I'd study the subject to try and come up with a counter - if you can. Because if they do what I expect they will do it is going to hurt. Bad.

[MSimon]

And you know what D? You have already lost a day because you just couldn't believe the people you have so much faith in could stoop so low. Taking Medicaid money to torture children? It is unbelievable isn't it? Shatters your world view. And yet it is public record. If you care to look.

Well I guess I ought to do a blog post on it just to get the ball rolling. And BTW there is a movie coming out. Probably just in time for the next election.

Here is the trailer.
http://youtu.be/K3R4CpyP5CA

Here is the www site for the movie:
http://www.fixmykidthemovie.com/

Here is a video about people recovering from the program

[MSimon]

Here is what the about page of the movie says about Straight Inc.

http://www.fixmykidthemovie.com/about.cfm

It is our hope that this film will not only promote healing among survivors, but will be used as a tool to educate both parents and professionals about the truth of this industry, as well as to encourage people to speak out and help put a stop to the needless abuse and torture children are experiencing every day in this country and around the world.

-Kelly Matthews

You should read the whole page D. It will break your heart. Assuming you have one.

This is the result of demonizing drugs. A bigger demon. And one the Republicans are in up to their eyeballs. George Bush (both of them) are connected to this. You might want to look for Democrat connections. You may find some.

[MSimon]

As promised D my blog post with documentation:

http://classicalvalues.com/2014/08/repu ... or-profit/

Lots of links and phrases in the post so you can start looking for Democrats who are in to this sort of thing.

[MSimon]

Looks like the Democrat in Florida was involved: http://thestraights.net/news/charlie-crist.htm

While you might want Charlie Crist to look into the activities of Straight, Inc., Crist could feel some sort of obligation to Straight cofounder Mel Sembler. After all, the Semblers are big financial backers of Crist and Florida's Republican Party. Mel and Betty Sembler, limited to maximum personal contributions of $500 per person per election for a candidate, gave $500 apiece to Crist's campaign on two separate occasions in 2000 and Betty gave another $500 in 2001.

===

Was Charlie Crist in The Seed? The Seed was a chain of controversial juvenile drug rehab programs founded in Ft. Lauderdale in 1970 by a Playboy Club comedian named Art Barker. The St. Petersburg times once reported that Barker had a mail order degree in psychology. The US Senate studied The Seed in 1974 and determined that it was using brainwashing methods like those employed by North Koreans on American servicemen in the Korean War. Pinellas County School Board Chairman Reverend A. L. Albers visited The Seed - Fort Lauderdale in 1973 and reported, "I didn't get any feeling of brainwashing, but even if there were, we're all brainwashed somewhat and is it really bad if it's for the good?" [SPI, 3/21/73, p. 5A.]

[mvanwink5]

"Straight Inc" is an eye-opener for me. Truly epic Lord of the Flies meets George Orwell's 1984.

Where will Liberal and Conservative Progs draw the line, if at all?