The Failure of Climate Anti-Intellectualism

[palladin9479]

The prosecution and enforcement of cannabis (as an excerpt from the entire WoD) would alone free up large chunks of federal and local money to be directed elsewhere. That's without getting into the possible unrealized medical savings from reducing the dependence on expensive patented drugs and the frick up US health system. Cannabis really does treat a ton of problems, especially chronic pain and depression. The shit we're prescribing for those has exponentially worse side effects, or have we all forgotten what's happening with Oxycontin and other legal prescription drugs.

[Betruger]

So, for you, this is a mutually exclusive thing. If something like SENS can't cure cancer finger-snappingly now, it's worthless. Regardless if it could do everything pot does, times seven, indefinitely, along with whatever benefit pot might do. Is that callous?

The SENS shelf is empty (if posterized to "all or nothing") because it's denied en masse as you deny it above. You have the patience to push for pot's limited benefits, but not to even inform yourself as you demand others do about pot, about the actual non-posterized reality of less-limited anti-aging research. I really thought you had more integrity than this.

I didn't say anything like that. I said the resources released can be applied to other things. And those resources could be released TODAY.

It is not me that is in denial.

I am not against you goal. I'm trying to release the resources that will help you reach it faster. And I'm not just trying. I'm succeeding. My integrity is intact. Yours?

I misread you, my bad. But I still don't see how you can campaign for medical cannabis, without also campaigning for something like SENS in the wider context of .. well, anything anyone gets out of being alive and healthy.

And it's not my goal. It's, in my opinion, everyone's goal - underneath their misconception that aging is inevitable, or necessary. It's my opinion that it's as much of a civic and humane duty as anything else, to get others to help overcome that misconception. So far I'm getting a tiny bit of incredulous and passive enthusiasm, and a lot of variously justified flat out denial or not very thought out skepticism.

I don't understand how anyone can pretend to love life... and then be totally indifferent to the prospect of enabling more of it for them and everyone that matters to them too.

[MSimon]

So, for you, this is a mutually exclusive thing. If something like SENS can't cure cancer finger-snappingly now, it's worthless. Regardless if it could do everything pot does, times seven, indefinitely, along with whatever benefit pot might do. Is that callous?

The SENS shelf is empty (if posterized to "all or nothing") because it's denied en masse as you deny it above. You have the patience to push for pot's limited benefits, but not to even inform yourself as you demand others do about pot, about the actual non-posterized reality of less-limited anti-aging research. I really thought you had more integrity than this.

I didn't say anything like that. I said the resources released can be applied to other things. And those resources could be released TODAY.

It is not me that is in denial.

I am not against you goal. I'm trying to release the resources that will help you reach it faster. And I'm not just trying. I'm succeeding. My integrity is intact. Yours?

I misread you, my bad. But I still don't see how you can campaign for medical cannabis, without also campaigning for something like SENS in the wider context of .. well, anything anyone gets out of being alive and healthy.

And it's not my goal. It's, in my opinion, everyone's goal - underneath their misconception that aging is inevitable, or necessary. It's my opinion that it's as much of a civic and humane duty as anything else, to get others to help overcome that misconception. So far I'm getting a tiny bit of incredulous and passive enthusiasm, and a lot of variously justified flat out denial or not very thought out skepticism.

I don't understand how anyone can pretend to love life... and then be totally indifferent to the prospect of enabling more of it for them and everyone that matters to them too.

There are just so many wars I can fight at once. I'm over extended as it is. It is all I can do right now to keep up with climate and cannabis and keeping a roof over my head.

[MSimon]

Pot fixes only a fraction of the ills, a fraction of the people, and has a steeper uphill battle for general acceptance. Anything cannabis does, SENS would do better. Are you saying some of the terminally ill are less equal than others, ie than those who have cancer? That only those to be treated by pot deserve more time alive and healthy?

Steeper up hill battle for general acceptance? Well OK there is a lot of prejudice and government opposition. That does nothing to negate the actual benefits.

CO2 is now a demon gas. Same deal.

And SENS "would do" as opposed to cannabis does. You might want to look up "cancer cannabinoid apoptosis" . Endocannabinoids are how the body naturally fights cancer. If a cancer gets past the body's defenses cannabis can do the job. Also look up "biochemist Dennis Hill cancer". Lots of stuff by him on the www explaining how cannabinoids fight cancer. Also "THC cancer"

As to fraction of the ills:

http://www.unitedpatientsgroup.com/reso ... -treatable

A more comprehensive list:

http://medicalmarijuana.com/treatments- ... a-cannabis

Endocannabinoids regulate every system in the body.

[hanelyp]

This thread seems as good as any other for the topic...

Legal Pot Is a Public Health Menace
Public opinion is moving in favor of marijuana, even as medical research raises fresh alarms.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/william- ... 1407970966 (paywalled)
via http://www.caintv.com/bill-bennett-this-notion-that (quotes from original),
https://plus.google.com/+HermanCain/posts/VK6p599w8Ze

[MSimon]

This thread seems as good as any other for the topic...

Legal Pot Is a Public Health Menace
Public opinion is moving in favor of marijuana, even as medical research raises fresh alarms.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/william- ... 1407970966 (paywalled)
via http://www.caintv.com/bill-bennett-this-notion-that (quotes from original),
https://plus.google.com/+HermanCain/posts/VK6p599w8Ze

Do those boys touch on the endocannabinoid system of the body? I doubt it. But I will look.

Cannabis prohibition is the CAGW of the right. Basically the government got the evidence it paid for. That does not mean it is worth anything.

You sound like Tom Clark on the dangers CO2.

[MSimon]

The WSJ article does me no good. BTW did you know that Bennett came out and said that for adults cannabis was probably OK?

Well here is a bit from him:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/16/opinion/b ... t-illegal/

Now he discusses Lady Gaga using it as an anti-anxiety medicine. And calls that addiction. As opposed to doctor prescribed big pharma approved anti-anxiety medicine. Which is perfectly OK. No doubt. The profits go to the right people.

"I've talked to parents all over the country who lost children to drug abuse -- not to marijuana alone..." as opposed to alcohol Bill? Which is the real gateway drug. If there is even such a thing. I'm not going to waste any more time with him. There are whole rafts of police organizations and SWAT teams depending on him winning the argument. Thankfully my side has the better argument and the better evidence.

[MSimon]

Now on to:

http://www.caintv.com/bill-bennett-this-notion-that

Where the dangers of THC are discussed like the dangers of THC curing cancer. Well I made that up. It is not in the post. But THC does cure cancer. The same way the endocannabinoids in the body fight cancer. Cancer cell apoptosis.

Well lets start with the government and then add a few other links.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/ ... onal/page4

http://patients4medicalmarijuana.wordpr ... -it-works/

http://www.collective-evolution.com/201 ... re-cancer/

http://www.collective-evolution.com/201 ... ncer-free/

So yeah. I can see the danger there. A whole section of the medical/industrial complex is in danger of being wiped out.

[MSimon]

I'm not going to waste any more time. Even our drug czar and president say cannabis is safer than alcohol. OH. Yeah. "The pot is stronger than ever" bit has been trotted out for at least 20 years. By now it has to be at least 10,000% THC.

And the great number of pot people in treatment? Well given the choice between treatment and jail what would you choose?

Speaking of treatment watch the last two minutes of the first video here - http://classicalvalues.com/2014/08/safe ... nc-part-1/ it is all about treatment. It will break your heart. If you have one. And if you follow the leads , it leads back to Mel Sembler a big time Republican donor who was sued out of the treatment business business for torturing children for profit. He got Medicaid money. He is big on the anti-medical pot bandwagon in Florida. Lets see how that works out for him.

Did I mention Sheldon Adelson is also in on the Florida crusade? He also funds a clinic in Israel looking into pot for MS. Go figure.

You position is bankrupt and is in the process of being liquidated. Tenths of a cent on the dollar.

[MSimon]

http://reason.com/blog/2013/02/01/drug- ... caffrey-ca

A militant drug warrior cheered by people who make a living off government-mandated substance abuse counseling. There's a dystopian vision for you.

Can you smell the corruption?

==============

BTW I was wrong about Bill Bennett - the former gambling addict. It was Barry McCaffrey.

http://www.hightimes.com/read/former-dr ... reversible

Yet five years ago, speaking at the Council on Foreign Relations, McCaffrey seemed to have no issue with adults who smoke pot. “Since I’m not in public life, I actually don’t care,” he responded to the question ‘why not just legalize drugs?’ “I care about 6th graders through 12th graders. If you’re 40 years old, and you’re living in Oregon, and you have 12 giant pot plants in the back of your log cabin, knock yourself out.”

[Betruger]

Pot fixes only a fraction of the ills, a fraction of the people, and has a steeper uphill battle for general acceptance. Anything cannabis does, SENS would do better. Are you saying some of the terminally ill are less equal than others, ie than those who have cancer? That only those to be treated by pot deserve more time alive and healthy?

Steeper up hill battle for general acceptance? Well OK there is a lot of prejudice and government opposition. That does nothing to negate the actual benefits.

CO2 is now a demon gas. Same deal.

And SENS "would do" as opposed to cannabis does. You might want to look up "cancer cannabinoid apoptosis" . Endocannabinoids are how the body naturally fights cancer. If a cancer gets past the body's defenses cannabis can do the job. Also look up "biochemist Dennis Hill cancer". Lots of stuff by him on the www explaining how cannabinoids fight cancer. Also "THC cancer"

As to fraction of the ills:

http://www.unitedpatientsgroup.com/reso ... -treatable

A more comprehensive list:

http://medicalmarijuana.com/treatments- ... a-cannabis

Endocannabinoids regulate every system in the body.

Cannabis... has the potential to extend human life span into the hundreds. ... I guess this is where I have to skip the better part of a couple nights' sleep to do the research that you won't do. Because you are too busy with researching pot. And global warming. For which you researched both sides. Unlike with Cannabis. Where I guess the mass of already neatly compiled data that's not suppressed like cannabis data, is the drop that runneth the cup over.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... ey+de+grey
http://www.sens.org/
http://www.fightaging.org
...

[MSimon]

Ok. Disease of aging:

Parkinsons -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24614667 cannabis
http://blog.norml.org/2014/03/17/study- ... -symptoms/

age related dementia cannabis
http://www.google.com/patents/US6630507

Can Marijuana Prevent Alzheimer's?
http://www.nextavenue.org/article/2012- ... ging-brain

Cannabis 'could stop dementia in its tracks'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... racks.html

The Endocannabinoid System and Age-Related Illnesses
http://www.cannabisscience.com/index.ph ... and-oregon

================

There is lots more if you look.

So it appears I have been supporting your issue without even knowing it.

You going to stop being angry with me yet?

[Betruger]

Again, it's not my issue. Curing aging is as fundamental as getting past material scarcity. As the Singularity, if it were feasible. Cannabis as you argue it is a subset of curing aging - it's everyone's issue.

I'm not really angry. Just exasperated at this point. How can people be so indifferent? In literally any other subject, it's a pretty sensible reaction. But curing aging, for something like 10M$ a year in a decade? How are the implications not computing?

And no anger and frustration would be a lack of integrity, I reckon. Something has to be done. Choosing not to live longer, given a choice, is fine. Choosing not to give ourselves that choice is immoral, period. It is no less fundamental and imperative as anything the Constitution stands for, for instance.

[MSimon]

Again, it's not my issue. Curing aging is as fundamental as getting past material scarcity. As the Singularity, if it were feasible. Cannabis as you argue it is a subset of curing aging - it's everyone's issue.

I'm not really angry. Just exasperated at this point. How can people be so indifferent? In literally any other subject, it's a pretty sensible reaction. But curing aging, for something like 10M$ a year in a decade? How are the implications not computing?

And no anger and frustration would be a lack of integrity, I reckon. Something has to be done. Choosing not to live longer, given a choice, is fine. Choosing not to give ourselves that choice is immoral, period. It is no less fundamental and imperative as anything the Constitution stands for, for instance.

Have you looked at this TED talk by de Gray? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0lvxTm2iLg

A LOT of what he discusses is treated by cannabis. 80% of medical costs are aging related. He names cancer. If cancer pops up - even in its very late stages - a few hundred $$ worth of cannabis (grown yourself) cures it. And cannabis adds brain cells. And protects the ones you already have and..... And we can use it now until we get something better.

Something is being done. It is just not in the direction you think is the correct one. I think your $1E7 a year in a decade is a very high number few will find it affordable. I think you could get at least 80% of what you desire for $100 a year per person. NOW. With cannabis. If the government would back off. Think of all the people who could afford that. In the 1st world that is pocket change.

[Betruger]

Forked off.
http://talk-polywell.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5544