So are other forms of Chaos.

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Diogenes
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So are other forms of Chaos.

Post by Diogenes »

Simon takes the waxing of drug legalization as evidence that society is improving. I take it as evidence that society is declining.



Given all the other areas in which society is unquestionably decaying, why would drug legalization be regarded as bucking this trend?



We have the silliest people ever deciding things now, but regarding this one thing they are being sensible while on everything else they are being foolish?


Nonsense. It's foolishness all the way down.


Image
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

MSimon
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Re: So are other forms of Chaos.

Post by MSimon »

Prohibition has never worked. What we are having is a return to sanity. Respect for police is at lows not seen since Alcohol Prohibition. And that is an improvement? Well I would count it as such. You might have a different opinion.

And I especially like your tag line in regards to this question:

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

==================

We were promised a drug free society by the wisest of wise men. And yet our drug use rates are higher than societies that have decriminalized. Even Colorado has seen a slight decline in pot use rates among the locals. Can't find that article. I did find this one:
http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/ ... uisia.html

In the first six months since Colorado legalized marijuana, homicides in Denver fell by more than 60 percent, according to government data. The new data from the Mile-High city, one Louisiana lawmaker said, might help persuade his colleagues in the legislature who opposed marijuana law reform during the recent session that lowering penalties for possession of the drug in the Pelican State won't cause a dangerous spike in crime.
http://rt.com/usa/163644-colorado-marijuana-crime-drop/

Between January 1 and April 30, violent crime and property crime in Denver — the most populated city in Colorado, in terms of both people and weed dispensaries — dropped 10.6 percent compared to that same span one year earlier, official statistics reveal. Homicides have dropped to less than half of last year’s levels, and motor vehicle theft has shrunk by over one-third.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Re: So are other forms of Chaos.

Post by MSimon »

You might like (or not) what I had to say on the Governmentium thread:

viewtopic.php?p=114585#p114585

The small government party in the US wants to reduce this. Well except for the DEA. Which needs to be larger. Much larger. Much much larger. Because it isn't working. And when Governmentium is not working the ONLY solution is to add more peons and morons. Especially morons.

Addiction to Governmentium is the most ineradicable addiction known to man. Use of Governmentium causes intolerance which requires exponential increases in the supply.

===================================================

I once estimated that the cost to interdict all drugs coming in to America would be on the order of $2 trillion a year and require something on the order of 2 million additional border police. And they ALL have to be honest. It only takes a few to ruin the whole program.

Of course if you do that you now have the problem - having raised prices - of domestic supplies.

Prohibition is socialism for criminals. I was under the impression that Republicans hated socialism with a purple passion. I guess there is one exception. When Republicans do it.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

mvanwink5
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Re: So are other forms of Chaos.

Post by mvanwink5 »

We have the silliest people ever deciding things now, but regarding this one thing they are being sensible while on everything else they are being foolish?
Incompetence at being incompetent, double negatives can have unexpected consequences.
Counting the days to commercial fusion. It is not that long now.

JoeP
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Re: So are other forms of Chaos.

Post by JoeP »

Just reflecting on the news lately. Never in my life have I seen the US act so irresponsibly and stupidly in all areas.

The economy, the debt, the huge illegal immigrant wave (encouraged), nutso foreign policy, insane energy policy, and now letting infected Ebola patients into the country, racial tensions deliberately inflamed, healthcare system destruction...

IMO, I can care less about the recent drug liberalization. I do also view it as a symptom though.

Dio, Chaos is the right word here.

Also -- I do not understand why most democrats are behind the president on all this stuff. The illegal influx issue, for one example. If they were founders of a new country, would they want free, unlimited, uncontrolled and unrestricted influx of people into their territory, no matter how poor, or infected, criminal, or without skills? And give them all manner of benefits? While citizens pay to give it to them without compensation? What positive is this, net-net? Is that what liberal democrats would have as policy in their founding document?

MSimon
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Re: So are other forms of Chaos.

Post by MSimon »

JoeP,

Drug criminalization was once a Progressive policy now ardently supported by conservatives. And of course it is being used quite effectively to split the right. And a faction of the right - instead of studying the issue - relies on the popular press and the government for its information. The same popular press they demonize on other issues. The same government they revile on other issues. Willful blindness that supports the very thing they oppose. Based on irrational fears. Well done mates.
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected. Even when the revolutionist might himself repent of his revolution, the traditionalist is already defending it as part of his tradition. Thus we have two great types -- the advanced person who rushes us into ruin, and the retrospective person who admires the ruins. He admires them especially by moonlight, not to say moonshine. Each new blunder of the progressive or prig becomes instantly a legend of immemorial antiquity for the snob. This is called the balance, or mutual check, in our Constitution. — G.K. Chesterton
If you truly want smaller government it has to be reduced EVERYWHERE. Because it all interlocks.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Re: So are other forms of Chaos.

Post by MSimon »

The whole idea revolves around a central theme - "We want a police state for THOSE PEOPLE" - conveniently forgetting that the police state will require OTHER PEOPLE when policy changes. Better to have no police state for anyone. It is safer.

Who will those SWAT teams be directed against once dopers are no longer a target?
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Diogenes
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Re: So are other forms of Chaos.

Post by Diogenes »

If Democrats had the votes awhile back, this could have been our President. (And if you think this is bullshit, Here's the link.)



Image



As it is, we got this one, who is actually pretty bad as well.


Image



Democrats: Giving you "Special Ed" Presidents since Jimmy Carter.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

MSimon
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Re: So are other forms of Chaos.

Post by MSimon »

Diogenes wrote:If Democrats had the votes awhile back, this could have been our President. (And if you think this is bullshit, Here's the link.)
[img ]http://i.imgur.com/feMp2Ko.jpg[/img]
As it is, we got this one, who is actually pretty bad as well.
[img ]http://www.moonbattery.com/weenie-in-ch ... icycle.jpg[/img]
Democrats: Giving you "Special Ed" Presidents since Jimmy Carter.
Aren't they both riding girl's bikes?
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Re: So are other forms of Chaos.

Post by MSimon »

BTW "D" is "police state" hitting too close to home? Most unfortunate.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

GIThruster
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Re: So are other forms of Chaos.

Post by GIThruster »

JoeP wrote:I do not understand why most democrats are behind the president on all this stuff. The illegal influx issue, for one example.
Because they are taking from the rich and giving to the poor which means all the poor are bought and paid for voters of their party, and all the people coming here illegally are poor.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

Diogenes
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Re: So are other forms of Chaos.

Post by Diogenes »

Oh, and by the way, Jonah Goldberg predicted back in 2007 what a disaster Obama's Iraq policy would be.



A green light to genocide
July 24, 2007|JONAH GOLDBERG

Barack Obama says preventing genocide isn't a good enough reason to stay in Iraq.

...


Of course, some advocates of withdrawal try to maintain the moral high ground by arguing that there won't be genocidal slaughter -- though that usually sounds like self-delusion to me. Most close observers of the situation believe that if the U.S. were to sail out of Iraq, it would be on a river of Iraqi blood.

"The only thing standing between Iraq and a descent into a Lebanon- or Bosnia-like maelstrom," a new report from the liberal-leaning Brookings Institution concludes, "is 135,000 American troops." Rapid withdrawal, the report says, could bring "a humanitarian nightmare" in which we should expect "hundreds of thousands (conceivably even millions) of people to die."

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jul/24 ... goldberg24
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Diogenes
Posts: 6976
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: So are other forms of Chaos.

Post by Diogenes »

JoeP wrote:Just reflecting on the news lately. Never in my life have I seen the US act so irresponsibly and stupidly in all areas.

The economy, the debt, the huge illegal immigrant wave (encouraged), nutso foreign policy, insane energy policy, and now letting infected Ebola patients into the country, racial tensions deliberately inflamed, healthcare system destruction...

IMO, I can care less about the recent drug liberalization. I do also view it as a symptom though.

Dio, Chaos is the right word here.

Also -- I do not understand why most democrats are behind the president on all this stuff.


Because the ones who are not brain dead stupid f*cks or rent seeking coruptocrats, are simply evil. They embrace the dark side. Abortion (Child murder, Baal Worship) Homosexuality/Transgender (Perversion, disease, Mental illness) Slavery (excessive taxation/intimidation by government) Libertine excess (Hedonism.) and hatred of benign religions (Judaism/Christianity) and the embrace of evil ones. (Islam/Pagan/Occult)



I long ago quite believing in religion, but for whatever reason, the old explanations of why these people are doing these things (the forces of evil work to tear down the good) still sums up the problem more succinctly than does very complex social theory. When Democrats are not being total irresponsible idiots, they are just plain evil. They booed the mention of "God" at their last convention. They hate Israel. They hate Jews. They hate real progress and want to go back to ancient pagan nature worship and pagan orgies and such.


If you look at everything which is regarded as evil in the bible, it's pretty much SOP Democrat policy positions.

JoeP wrote: The illegal influx issue, for one example. If they were founders of a new country, would they want free, unlimited, uncontrolled and unrestricted influx of people into their territory, no matter how poor, or infected, criminal, or without skills? And give them all manner of benefits? While citizens pay to give it to them without compensation? What positive is this, net-net? Is that what liberal democrats would have as policy in their founding document?

The latest theory of which I have heard regarding this is that Barack Obama has been polling badly among Hispanics and believes that he can boost his favorables by catering to what he thinks they want, and what he thinks they want is Amnesty for illegals. (Also many of his big business cronies want this. That's why so many Republicans support it as well.)

That this policy is highly damaging to his Black constituents doesn't worry him at all. The Democrats have done such a good job sewing up that Demographic that he has nothing to worry about from pissing them off. They will still vote Democrat next time around anyway.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

williatw
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Re: So are other forms of Chaos.

Post by williatw »

Diogenes wrote:Oh, and by the way, Jonah Goldberg predicted back in 2007 what a disaster Obama's Iraq policy would be.



Perhaps...but when infidels kill Muslims in their eyes it is genocide that must be avenged. When Muslims kill other Muslims that's not looked at the same way by them. Who in the Middle East even remembers for instance the Iran/Iraq war and it human wave attacks ordered by that f&%k nut Khomeini? Well over a million killed. And remember it was the Iraqi government 250K strong trained and equipped by us to the tune of billions of dollars that is getting its arse handed to it by a rag-tag poorly trained 30K or so ISIS force a fraction of its size. It was they who decided to be recalcitrant about granting our troops legal exemption from their law, knowing full well we wouldn't agree to stay under those terms. They wanted us out as fast as possible, it was under Bush that the removal agreement was signed; sure now they regret it and our only too happy to lay the blame at our feet. But as far as I am concerned they (the Iraqi/Maliki gov.) own this debacle, a pox on both of them. Also if Sunni & Shia are preoccupied murdering each other, than perhaps we don't have so much to worry about for awhile. After all it was your beloved Ronald Reagan who sold arms to Iraq under Sadam so he could continue to wag war against Iran...the obvious idea was let them kill each other by their own choice, the morality(or lack thereof) of that didn't seem to trouble Reagan to much.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/s ... nniversary

JoeP
Posts: 525
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Re: So are other forms of Chaos.

Post by JoeP »

Diogenes wrote:
JoeP wrote:Just reflecting on the news lately. Never in my life have I seen the US act so irresponsibly and stupidly in all areas.

The economy, the debt, the huge illegal immigrant wave (encouraged), nutso foreign policy, insane energy policy, and now letting infected Ebola patients into the country, racial tensions deliberately inflamed, healthcare system destruction...

IMO, I can care less about the recent drug liberalization. I do also view it as a symptom though.

Dio, Chaos is the right word here.

Also -- I do not understand why most democrats are behind the president on all this stuff.


Because the ones who are not brain dead stupid f*cks or rent seeking coruptocrats, are simply evil. They embrace the dark side. Abortion (Child murder, Baal Worship) Homosexuality/Transgender (Perversion, disease, Mental illness) Slavery (excessive taxation/intimidation by government) Libertine excess (Hedonism.) and hatred of benign religions (Judaism/Christianity) and the embrace of evil ones. (Islam/Pagan/Occult)



I long ago quite believing in religion, but for whatever reason, the old explanations of why these people are doing these things (the forces of evil work to tear down the good) still sums up the problem more succinctly than does very complex social theory. When Democrats are not being total irresponsible idiots, they are just plain evil. They booed the mention of "God" at their last convention. They hate Israel. They hate Jews. They hate real progress and want to go back to ancient pagan nature worship and pagan orgies and such.


If you look at everything which is regarded as evil in the bible, it's pretty much SOP Democrat policy positions.
I just can't believe it is that simple, at least from the working Democrats. I live in a blue state and I have middle class friends, co-workers, and even family members that live one way, but vote the other, and do not suffer cognitive dissonance on most of this stuff. It makes no sense. Also some, not all, of the Dems I'm talking about are family oriented and very high IQ. Doesn't make a difference.

Diogenes wrote:
JoeP wrote: The illegal influx issue, for one example. If they were founders of a new country, would they want free, unlimited, uncontrolled and unrestricted influx of people into their territory, no matter how poor, or infected, criminal, or without skills? And give them all manner of benefits? While citizens pay to give it to them without compensation? What positive is this, net-net? Is that what liberal democrats would have as policy in their founding document?

The latest theory of which I have heard regarding this is that Barack Obama has been polling badly among Hispanics and believes that he can boost his favorables by catering to what he thinks they want, and what he thinks they want is Amnesty for illegals. (Also many of his big business cronies want this. That's why so many Republicans support it as well.)

That this policy is highly damaging to his Black constituents doesn't worry him at all. The Democrats have done such a good job sewing up that Demographic that he has nothing to worry about from pissing them off. They will still vote Democrat next time around anyway.
Yeah, I'm sure that is it from the Obama POV and the people high up in his administration. These people do not care about the damage and the stupidity of letting in a wave of poor, diseased, and desperate people into a country that is already on the brink of disaster. That is downright evil, yes. However, I was referring to Democrats that aren't so tied into the machine. The middle and upper class voters and business owners. The blue collar people with kids in these schools that are getting overrun by invaders. The hospital workers that always vote Democrat and see with their own eyes the system getting smashed by people that do not pay and overwhelm emergency rooms. On and on. And yet, as a group they still think it is the fault of the House of Representatives that won't work with Obama on solutions. When the solutions are so obvious (Obama is exacerbating the problems intentionally), you think a 12 year old could figure it out with a little common sense. And yet even the smart ones, with "skin in the game," to use an Obama phrase, just go along with whatever the official word on down from the White House says that they should believe.

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