CIA Out of Control?

[palladin9479]

Does anyone know rather precisely how many trained men are required, bare minimum, to shoot down that airliner with that BUK system?
--
Never mind..
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/w ... zuy8h.html

This SA-11 system is designed to function as a battery. At a minimum this is three vehicles. In this case, the launcher seems to have been used as a stand alone.
The normal battery has a "Command Vehicle" which also provides the area search radar. This vehicle links to a launcher (what was used in Ukraine) that also has a target aquisition and tracking radar. This unit can be used by itself, but is limited by its on board tracking radar to basic detect to track. I do not think that it provides IFF functionality either. I think that is only with the command vehicle. There is also another vehicle that is a launcher/reloader. This one can carry eight (four ready for launch) weapons, and has four on launch rails. It does not have a radar, and must be qued from the command vehicle, or (I am making a guess) a stand alone launcher.
This is not a simple system, and nor do I believe it was manned and operated by off the street rebels. My money says it had a Russian crew, and maybe 1 or two Ukrainian trainees.
My money also says that it is back in Russia now.

Putin has been strangley quiet on this one. Not his usual in your face approach. More like going to ground to limit future damage he assesses will come out as the story is told.

I highly doubt they had trained Russian operators, they would be good enough to know to properly identify targets. My money is on the operators being quickly trained by the Russians on how to shoot the system (or they had previous training from the Ukraine) but not having a trained signals analyst who can look over the radar signature data and provide more detailed target identification. This really is a case of giving an advanced weapons platform to untrained/semi-trained militants. It's no different then having them try to operate a B-52 or Aegis cruiser.

[MSimon]

My understanding is that the system was a two or three piece unit.

1. Firing unit - simple radar
2. Identification radar
3. Reload/firing unit

On the day the '17 was shot down unit #1 was operating independently.

It is also possible the operators were under trained.

[ladajo]

What he says and what he does will be two different things.
He has a lot of internal pressure to be "the hero".

The real question is how at risk does he feel in his position and why?
That will determine what he does, not what he says.

[ladajo]

My understanding is that the system was a two or three piece unit.

1. Firing unit - simple radar
2. Identification radar
3. Reload/firing unit

On the day the '17 was shot down unit #1 was operating independently.

It is also possible the operators were under trained.

The TELAR (Transporter - Erector - Launcher and Radar) vehicle was the unit used for this operation.
It mounts a target tracking and engagement radar only.

A basic (standard) battery is two TELARs and one Loader/Launcher vehicle. They would be under the control of a command vehicle that mounts the search radar.
A Battalion would be two batteries and a command vehicle.

In this case, the TELAR was operating independantly and thus had limited if no ability to use its targeting radar to assess the target. That would be done be the command vehicle. Targeting radars typically have rudimentary search capabilities, and sometimes none. They want to be told where to look for the track, not search for it.
Even stand alone, it is complex, and someone had to be a trained operator/supervisor out of the crew. They also had to have some sort of cueing.

[MSimon]

What he says and what he does will be two different things.
He has a lot of internal pressure to be "the hero".

The real question is how at risk does he feel in his position and why?
That will determine what he does, not what he says.

He is also under a LOT of pressure from his big money men to cut his losses so they can keep up their profits.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... k-out.html

Evidently they are not to terrified to get word to the Mail.

[choff]

They're still shooting down military aircraft in E Ukraine.

http://news.ca.msn.com/world/2-ukrainia ... -shot-down

Putin only has to give the rebels enough hardware to hang on until winter, after that the gas squeeze will take down the Kiev government. They've lost twice as many civilians to Kiev's ground campaign as were killed in the 777, if I was the family member of a victim I'd sue Malaysian airlines, they're still flying over war zones like Syria.

Putin knows that NATO won't stop with Ukraine, if this works Soros or some other bankster will startup another paid uprising in some other section of the Russian federation.

[MSimon]

They're still shooting down military aircraft in E Ukraine.

http://news.ca.msn.com/world/2-ukrainia ... -shot-down

Putin only has to give the rebels enough hardware to hang on until winter, after that the gas squeeze will take down the Kiev government. They've lost twice as many civilians to Kiev's ground campaign as were killed in the 777, if I was the family member of a victim I'd sue Malaysian airlines, they're still flying over war zones like Syria.

Putin knows that NATO won't stop with Ukraine, if this works Soros or some other bankster will startup another paid uprising in some other section of the Russian federation.

For the long game there are limits. If he squeezes too hard and encourages fracking....

[Betruger]

[...]
In this case, the TELAR was operating independently and thus had limited if no ability to use its targeting radar to assess the target. That would be done be the command vehicle. Targeting radars typically have rudimentary search capabilities, and sometimes none. They want to be told where to look for the track, not search for it.
Even stand alone, it is complex, and someone had to be a trained operator/supervisor out of the crew. They also had to have some sort of cueing.

Would one guy with binocs and sextant or something, be enough?

[ladajo]

That only works for low altitude tracks and is usually too late to cue and slew. Looking for something flying high can be challenging. Especially if there is no contrail. It can be done, but would be low in success rate in my estimation.
And if these dummies did just point and shoot the first contrail they saw (which I did not see in any of the videos), then East Ukraine deserves a gene-pool cleansing.
I think they were cued externally. What is interesting is that the recorded intercepts called them the "mining" group. You know, like Land Mines for airplanes.

[TDPerk]

Putin knows that NATO won't stop with Ukraine, if this works Soros or some other bankster will startup another paid uprising in some other section of the Russian federation.

Funny, seems like you think Putin has any right to be concerned about NATO being on his border. If he were honest, then that would be no cause for concern, would it?

And neither Soros nor any banksters had anything to do with the uprising, the once Ukrainian President--ethnically Russian--was trying to force Ukraine back into Moscow's orbit. His removal is supported by at least the 80% of the Ukrainians who aren't ethnically Russian.

I hope the Malaysians contribute a division or two to the suppression of the Putinist thugs in Ukraine. Not likely, too bad.

http://freebeacon.com/national-security ... -military/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... illery-uk/

Putin deserves a Po219 sandwich.

He is hostis humani generis.

[choff]

And neither Soros nor any banksters had anything to do with the uprising, the once Ukrainian President--ethnically Russian--was trying to force Ukraine back into Moscow's orbit. His removal is supported by at least the 80% of the Ukrainians who aren't ethnically Russian.

http://reclaimourrepublic.wordpress.com ... n-ukraine/

“Well, I set up a foundation in Ukraine before Ukraine became independent of Russia. And the foundation has been functioning ever since and played an important part in events now,” Soros responded.

[TDPerk]

Choff, you're free to quote the man claiming anything he likes--he didn't manufacture the sentiment of over 80% of the Ukrainians that Putin's puppet needed to go.

Soros didn't manufacture the lies the Putinites are spreading about the Ukraine being run by Nazis, or of the Ukrainians (they using rifles) burning alive Russian thugs (they using Molotov's), or of Ukrainians crucifying Russian speaking grandmothers.

The banks don't benefit from a free Ukraine, neither does Putin.

[choff]

Look at it this way, hypothetically, tomorrow your democratically elected president flees for his life from a violent mob, the new leader is a banker who immediately imposes bank bail in/withdrawal restrictions, cuts your pension in half, and accepts a national debt refinancing scheme that will make the population debt serfs to foreign interests in perpetuity.

How would that make you feel? Careful how you answer, the way things are going you really may end up in the same situation.

[TDPerk]

Look at it this way, hypothetically, tomorrow your democratically elected president flees for his life from a violent mob, the new leader is a banker who immediately imposes bank bail in/withdrawal restrictions, cuts your pension in half, and accepts a national debt refinancing scheme that will make the population debt serfs to foreign interests in perpetuity.

How would that make you feel? Careful how you answer, the way things are going you really may end up in the same situation.

"tomorrow your democratically elected president flees for his life from a violent mob"

I hope that's a promise you can deliver on...

"the new leader is a banker who immediately imposes bank bail in/withdrawal restrictions, cuts your pension in half, and accepts a national debt refinancing scheme that will make the population debt serfs to foreign interests in perpetuity"

No such thing. Where are the Iceni's debts to the Romans? Those were never paid.

And you seem to think Yanukovych was angling for something besides Russian suzerainty over Ukraine. You think about that.

Also, Obama is giving the bankers everything they want. Yanukovych was just sucking up to a different banker.

Think about that too.