CIA Out of Control?

[mvanwink5]

This is a more balanced article:
http://www.newsdaily.com/australia-nz/f ... aine-fight

Few passenger airliners have ever been shot down — and when they are, it can cause lasting political damage.

A U.S. warship mistakenly shot down an Iranian jet in 1988 during the Iran-Iraq war, killing 290 people and prompting widespread anger at U.S. policy and years of legal dispute.

Whoever shot down the plane made a mistake (as stated in the article "suspicion falling heavily on pro-Russian insurgents"). The larger mistake is being made by those fueling the conflict. Anyone who supports one demon over another is missing the victims, the "collateral" damage.

The West might even increase its military aid to Ukraine.

Even before the plane was downed, Putin faced competing pressures at home. Some in his administration were urging him to take a more forceful hand in supporting the rebels, while others urged him to step away.

If the rebels can be shown to have committed an act that horrified the world, the doves would likely see their position strengthened. But Putin-watchers caution that with the Russian president, you never really know.

My guess is Putin is looking for a way out of Ukraine. Ukraine is doing nothing but costing Russia money and business. He has strategic Crimea which originally was put in jeopardy by the US-CIA overthrow of the Ukraine Russian thug run government.

This looks like a Br'er Rabbit and the briar patch moment for Putin, giving him a way out.

Obambats have a lot of car bumper sticker peace signs to scrape off.

[TDPerk]

The larger mistake is being made by those fueling the conflict. Anyone who supports one demon over another

Shouldn't you at least pretend to show the Ukrainians are any sort of demon for that pithy blather to work out?

The West might even increase its military aid to Ukraine.

Good.

He has strategic Crimea which originally was put in jeopardy by the US-CIA overthrow of the Ukraine Russian thug run government

There was no US-CIA putsch, it was a Ukrainian overthrow of the Russian thug.

[Betruger]

Does anyone know rather precisely how many trained men are required, bare minimum, to shoot down that airliner with that BUK system?
--
Never mind..
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/w ... zuy8h.html

[Skipjack]

While I am almost 100% certain that the Russians are involved in this somehow (it reminds me of the whole thing with Franz Ferdinand almost exactly 100 years ago), I want to say that it is not unlikely that many of the separatists once were in the Ukrainian military, maybe even operating the same missile launchers.

[MSimon]

While I am almost 100% certain that the Russians are involved in this somehow (it reminds me of the whole thing with Franz Ferdinand almost exactly 100 years ago), I want to say that it is not unlikely that many of the separatists once were in the Ukrainian military, maybe even operating the same missile launchers.

many of the separatists once were in the Russian military,

I rate that as a certainty from the news we get in the US.

maybe even operating the same missile launchers

Probability >99% or they got Russian training. It is known that the Russians were training the "separatists". Not known (publicly) is the training courses.

[ladajo]

Does anyone know rather precisely how many trained men are required, bare minimum, to shoot down that airliner with that BUK system?
--
Never mind..
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/w ... zuy8h.html

This SA-11 system is designed to function as a battery. At a minimum this is three vehicles. In this case, the launcher seems to have been used as a stand alone.
The normal battery has a "Command Vehicle" which also provides the area search radar. This vehicle links to a launcher (what was used in Ukraine) that also has a target aquisition and tracking radar. This unit can be used by itself, but is limited by its on board tracking radar to basic detect to track. I do not think that it provides IFF functionality either. I think that is only with the command vehicle. There is also another vehicle that is a launcher/reloader. This one can carry eight (four ready for launch) weapons, and has four on launch rails. It does not have a radar, and must be qued from the command vehicle, or (I am making a guess) a stand alone launcher.
This is not a simple system, and nor do I believe it was manned and operated by off the street rebels. My money says it had a Russian crew, and maybe 1 or two Ukrainian trainees.
My money also says that it is back in Russia now.

Putin has been strangley quiet on this one. Not his usual in your face approach. More like going to ground to limit future damage he assesses will come out as the story is told.

[MSimon]

Putin has been strangley quiet on this one. Not his usual in your face approach. More like going to ground to limit future damage he assesses will come out as the story is told.

I saw him on TV last night. Not sure how recent the vids/pictures were but he definitely looked pained. Not his usual self.

It also looks like there are too many "spies" behind his lines to keep what he wants bottled in the bottle. Cell phone videos greatly complicate story telling.

And then there is the trucking of 190 some bodies East. This is causing another uproar. Who ever is managing this is doing a very poor job. If they need to "decontaminate" the bodies it should be done on site. In meat trucks. Bring in more "rebels" if necessary. Doing the job in Russia just makes him look more guilty.

[Skipjack]

This SA-11 system is designed to function as a battery. At a minimum this is three vehicles. In this case, the launcher seems to have been used as a stand alone.
The normal battery has a "Command Vehicle" which also provides the area search radar. This vehicle links to a launcher (what was used in Ukraine) that also has a target aquisition and tracking radar. This unit can be used by itself, but is limited by its on board tracking radar to basic detect to track. I do not think that it provides IFF functionality either. I think that is only with the command vehicle. There is also another vehicle that is a launcher/reloader. This one can carry eight (four ready for launch) weapons, and has four on launch rails. It does not have a radar, and must be qued from the command vehicle, or (I am making a guess) a stand alone launcher.

Great info there! That would explain a lot!

[Betruger]

Thanks Ladajo.

[ladajo]

If they need to "decontaminate" the bodies

This is a point lost on the media.

The Russians must be scrambling right now to find any weapon traces on the aircraft. This would include shrapnel in the casualties, and airframe. They will seek to santize for metal bits, and may also try to sanitize explosive residues from the airframe skins. There are many possible tells as to the system used, and they will be hard pressed to clean it all up.
It would make me giggle immensly if some farmer comes forward with bits of the booster that fell in his barn.
If I was an agency dude, I would be scrambling assets to scour the dirt under the assessed point of interception looking for booster bits. They are there somewhere. These kinds of weapons do not just vaporize as our North Korean Idiots found out.

Some douche probably has the launch video on his phone as well and shared it with some buddies. Some of whom won't erase.
They took the time to tape the An-26 intercept, and some attempt had to be made to get this one as well. We saw one abbreviated video, there will be more.

[ladajo]

Speaking of which...



First Missile Damage Evidence MH17 found

[ladajo]

and more evidence surfaces...



New York Times

Now they just need to collect these bits and get them in the hands of the investigators before the Russians run off with them.
At a minimum, residue analysis will show explosives type.

The Holy Grail remains out on the ground, which will be the propulsion unit and other identifiable missile fragments that will carry manufacturing marks. These marks will be able to be tied back to Russian production lines by factory and dates.

[williatw]

The Holy Grail remains out on the ground, which will be the propulsion unit and other identifiable missile fragments that will carry manufacturing marks. These marks will be able to be tied back to Russian production lines by factory and dates.

Then they will likely disappear faster than the Roswell crash debris did.

http://ufocon.blogspot.com/2009/08/scie ... swell.html

[ladajo]

Put these Lat/Long into Google Earth, and you will see a confirmed location of the SA-11 launcher per this page:

http://www.koreandefense.com/how-to-fin ... uk-system/

Then look to the immediate west south west and you will see an area of open black soil terrain that looks exactly like that seen in the video I posted earlier which was made by guys who were filming before the plane hit the dirt.

Coincidence?

Of note is this other guy who has done some good open source analysis of the internet posted SA-11 launcher photos and videos.

Bellingcat

and

Bellingcat 2

Bellingcat 3

which answers this question:

Who-dunnit?

[MSimon]

It looks like Putin has caved.

http://news.yahoo.com/did-putin-just-br ... 45709.html

Vladimir Putin opened a special meeting of the Kremlin's Security Council today with an odd statement: "There is no direct military threat to our country’s sovereignty or territorial integrity at present," he said.

To a Western ear, that might sound like belaboring the obvious. For a Russian audience today, it's a jarring note for their leader to strike.

Mr. Putin's statement flatly contradicts what the domestic media have been saying for months. Just days ago, Russian outlets were warning of a White House "offensive against Russia and China," with the US trying to create "instability on Russia's borders." Putin himself earlier this month claimed that Russia's annexation of Crimea was to forestall NATO from getting a foothold in Ukraine.

The rest of the article is quite interesting as well. It looks like he has decided that he is going to take his easy gains in the Crimea and fold up the rest of his effort. The long game Russia has been playing for hundreds of years.