CIA Out of Control?

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Betruger
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Re: CIA Out of Control?

Post by Betruger »

What are they saying?
Skipjack wrote:Allegedly there were over 100 of the worlds leading HIV researchers on that plane. This could potentially throw back HIV research by decades. I bet there is a conspiracy theory hiding in that sad fact too... puts tin foil hat on.
Either way, this is a major clusterfuck and I think that Russia would do a good job by distancing itself as far as possible from this from now on (as they should have done already by now).
So should the US, btw. This is an internal matter for the Ukraine to sort out.
Man, what a mess!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... story.html
Estimates unconfirmed so far:
But conference organizers said they have only been able to confirm seven names.

“We have been working hard to try and confirm how many people were on the flight. We’ve been speaking to a number of different authorities, and we think the actual number is much smaller,” said Chris Beyrer, who will take over the presidency of the International AIDS Society at the end of the global conference next week.

Their efforts have been complicated by the fact that the airline has not released a passenger manifest so they have been relying on information from colleagues, friends, family members and authorities from various countries. He said that while there may be some people who were on the flight and headed to the conference that they do not know about, it appears that the numbers are “an order of magnitude smaller than what has been reported.”
Last edited by Betruger on Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mvanwink5
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Re: CIA Out of Control?

Post by mvanwink5 »

Looks like just another civil war disaster half-funded by the US. What are we doing funding these conflicts? Result is just another tragedy, economically ruined country, and shell shocked population. No doubt the US will feel guilty and do some more trillion dollar "Nation Building."
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GIThruster
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Re: CIA Out of Control?

Post by GIThruster »

What makes you think we're funding anything in Ukraine? I think we were giving support funds before the revolt but I don't think we've done a thing since it started.

We've been pretty uninvolved. We supported Ukraine because they are ex-Soviet and we wanted to see that separation continue, but it has been a very low priority and a thorn in Russia's side. I haven't seen any evidence we've been involved past that. Certainly there's no evidence of CIA there nor that our weapons were used to shoot down this plane.
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choff
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Re: CIA Out of Control?

Post by choff »

A week before the Malaysian plane was shot down the Ukrainian government was saying airstrikes had just killed up to a 1000 rebels. That would have put the missile operators on edge, probably the radars couldn't tell military from civilian aircraft, didn't help that the plane shifted 100 miles off track to avoid bad weather.
CHoff

MSimon
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Re: CIA Out of Control?

Post by MSimon »

ladajo wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... 000ft.html

The third video is probably shot by the guys working with the BUK launcher. You can hear engine running and see the vehicle track marks on the ground in front of them, as well as note that they are filming before dirt impact.
You know - it has been obvious for some time that the "rebels" are at least led by Russian special forces. And a launcher like that requires training. It is not a point and shoot device.

The only place so far I have seen even a minor questioning of the "rebel" meme was at Reason Magazine and they did it in a headline only. Something to the effect of:

Russian rebels (cough, cough)....
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choff
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Re: CIA Out of Control?

Post by choff »

While we're at it, I'll throw out my own bat$hit crazy tinfoil hat conspiracy theory, as in, we've just found that other Malaysian 777.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/ ... 8-14-22-48
CHoff

mvanwink5
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Re: CIA Out of Control?

Post by mvanwink5 »

The only reason Ukraine hasn't pursued peace is promises from Obama. What? Promises aren't promises of money, and $ aide? What about all the massive political arm twisting of Europe by Obambat? Reminding Europe of US bailout of its butt with the Fed Reserve's trillions? Remember Geithner's little visits, with no public explanation? Yes, the magic of printing presses. Anyone think Europe just fixed their massive sovereign socialist debt by itself??? Come on guys. Europe did not want to screw around with their gas supplier, not when they had just balked at fracking. No, Obambat has some Prog agenda here that is worth all this trouble... and Ukraine is a debt ridden mob - thug run country, that needs cash. The only reason they would be killing their population is manipulations by Obambat.

Mr. Nobel Peace Prize!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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mvanwink5
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Re: CIA Out of Control?

Post by mvanwink5 »

http://rt.com/news/173976-mh17-crash-questions-ukraine/
Malaysia MH17 crash: 10 questions Russia wants Ukraine to answer

TEN QUESTIONS FOR THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES
1. Immediately after the tragedy, the Ukrainian authorities, naturally, blamed it on the self-defense forces. What are these accusations based on?
2. Can Kiev explain in detail how it uses Buk missile launchers in the conflict zone? And why were these systems deployed there in the first place, seeing as the self-defense forces don’t have any planes?
3. Why are the Ukrainian authorities not doing anything to set up an international commission? When will such a commission begin its work?
4. Would the Ukrainian Armed Forces be willing to let international investigators see the inventory of their air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, including those used in SAM launchers?
5. Will the international commission have access to tracking data from reliable sources regarding the movements of Ukrainian warplanes on the day of the tragedy?
6. Why did Ukrainian air traffic controllers allow the plane to deviate from the regular route to the north, towards “the anti-terrorist operation zone”?
7. Why was airspace over the warzone not closed for civilian flights, especially since the area was not entirely covered by radar navigation systems?
8. How can official Kiev comment on reports in the social media, allegedly by a Spanish air traffic controller who works in Ukraine, that there were two Ukrainian military planes flying alongside the Boeing 777 over Ukrainian territory?
9. Why did Ukraine’s Security Service start working with the recordings of communications between Ukrainian air traffic controllers and the Boeing crew and with the data storage systems from Ukrainian radars without waiting for international investigators?
10. What lessons has Ukraine learned from a similar incident in 2001, when a Russian Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea? Back then, the Ukrainian authorities denied any involvement on the part of Ukraine’s Armed Forces until irrefutable evidence proved official Kiev to be guilty.
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MSimon
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Re: CIA Out of Control?

Post by MSimon »

mvanwink5 wrote:http://rt.com/news/173976-mh17-crash-questions-ukraine/
Malaysia MH17 crash: 10 questions Russia wants Ukraine to answer
Did you hear about the Brit RT announcer who quit over the MH17?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media ... 15489.html

A presenter for the Kremlin-backed news channel Russia Today (RT) has resigned from her job in protest over the broadcaster’s coverage of the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crash in Ukraine.

Sara Firth quit the post she has held at the Moscow based station for five years over what she described as their “total disrespect to the facts”, claiming on Twitter that the RT style guide rule one is: "It is ALWAYS *Ukraine's fault (*add name as applicable)”.

Firth, who was a London-based correspondent, told the Press Gazette: “It’s scary that it’s genuine RT guidance on how to do a story, and you have to believe it to succeed there. You stop believing that what they say is the way it is and you stop being useful to them.”
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MSimon
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Re: CIA Out of Control?

Post by MSimon »

choff wrote:While we're at it, I'll throw out my own bat$hit crazy tinfoil hat conspiracy theory, as in, we've just found that other Malaysian 777.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/ ... 8-14-22-48
That is bat shit crazy. Doesn't he (the Russian intel guy) know that we in the West are seeing reports from the airport? Not that they couldn't be faked. But it is too early in the game to get all the stories to match. And they all match.

==

If I was to use American legal theory on that guy such a story is evidence of a guilty mind.
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MSimon
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Re: CIA Out of Control?

Post by MSimon »

10. What lessons has Ukraine learned from a similar incident in 2001, when a Russian Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea? Back then, the Ukrainian authorities denied any involvement on the part of Ukraine’s Armed Forces until irrefutable evidence proved official Kiev to be guilty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Ai ... light_1812
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mvanwink5
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Re: CIA Out of Control?

Post by mvanwink5 »

Lesss see here, you don't mean to say that RT has a propaganda narrative? Oh, my, what a special thing. And your narrative is something we all know well....

The narrative I was clumsily trying to make is that this is thug vs thug vs thug with the resulting loss of lives and livelihood. I don't buy demonizing one thug over another. This is all about US ribbon wearing Progs having fun and "helping." Result? Another state sponsored complete disaster.
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paperburn1
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Re: CIA Out of Control?

Post by paperburn1 »

There were 21 commercial planes flying in Ukraine airspace at the time of the shoot down. (one hour time frame) .
There were also some military flights including Board ONE, Putan's aircraft .
After the shoot down the flight area was clear of civilian aircraft. Delta has been avoiding the area for the past 30 days but other company's have not because the next safest route uses a lot more time and fuel.
It looks like they thought they had an AN-26 military cargo in their sights and were wrong. Several sources all questionable but the most likely scenario.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine ... 56545.html
All the conspiracy nuts think that Ukraine was gunning for Putan and got the wrong plane.
As the weapon used is not an optical sight I do not thing that it was a visual confusion.
saying Kevi would not shoot down a civilian plane is wrong because they did it in 2001.
http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/
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MSimon
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Re: CIA Out of Control?

Post by MSimon »

paperburn1, mvanwink5,

viewtopic.php?p=113990#p113990

But I'm still of the opinion that the Russians did it and that the uprising by the "rebels" is not a popular rebellion. Not that there isn't sympathy. But in my estimation the "uprising" is instigated not home grown. That is the sort of thing that special forces and intel agents are there for.

But Russia due to the Euro Green movement has the whip hand.
http://blogs.epmag.com/guests/2014/06/2 ... -fracking/

http://nypost.com/2014/05/26/energy-dea ... plessness/
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TDPerk
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Re: CIA Out of Control?

Post by TDPerk »

saying Kevi would not shoot down a civilian plane is wrong because they did it in 2001.
Saying that has anything to do with this situation is really disingenuous, when the Ukrainians freely acknowledged that missile missing it's target carried on into the civilian aircraft, and they paid compensation to the estates of the victims.

The Russians on the other hand have a history of shooting down airliners and then obfuscating their involvement, four times in 75 years. Here, they obfuscated their involvement ahead of time.
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