How close do you think we are from a third world war?

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mvanwink5
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Re: How close do you think we are from a third world war?

Post by mvanwink5 »

So, you're telling me the whole courting with Nato was happening all by itself? Yes, I am way off. And Obama is to the right of Putin? Talk about corruption, US Banksters aren't corrupt? What about the pipeline Obama nixed so his buddy would get the rail traffic? I am unconvinced. Where the greatest corruption is? And the snug relation the FDA has with the pharma industry???? Come on. One might think that Obamas worries about Ukraine is the huge Bankster debt the Banksters are afraid Putin would decide Ukraine need not pay...
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mvanwink5
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Re: How close do you think we are from a third world war?

Post by mvanwink5 »

Ladajo,
Just tell me I don't need to worry about Obama-Hillary nationalizing (in one sly way or another) my retirement IRA to fund their progressive utopia. Or I need not worry about the Social Security check. Or the US dollar going the way of the Venezuela Bolivar. Or that Obama-Hillary are to the right of Putin? Or that Putin's defense budget is worrisome to the world. In my mind it is more likely Obama's progressives want Putin to play progressive ball and fall in line.
Counting the days to commercial fusion. It is not that long now.

ohiovr
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Re: How close do you think we are from a third world war?

Post by ohiovr »

Thanks for the responses. It is pretty clear where people here get their news. If you follow the TV news networks you will come to realize that Putin is a kind of super aggressive hitleresque monster being constantly appeased by weak EU governments. If you read what people call the alternative news, RT and watch a lot of YouTube, you will come to realize that the violent overthrow of the Ukrainian government and replacement government is by the hand of Nato. It was like the Russians have a time machine and teleporter and built a whole military base in Crimea without anyone even noticing this for hundreds of years till just recently, when it was discovered that Putin is in fact, the anti Christ. Never mind that both sides have been funding violent protestors to the tune of a working class salary when youth unemployment is at terrific levels at this time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my8SmQY ... tQMlYQZDSF

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZnkULuWFDg

I'm pretty skeptical of both western and eastern media. In the USA if you don't tow the party line as a journalist, you get fired, discredited, and black mailed. In the Russian Federation they just kill you. I'm also suspicious of alternative media as my second link will explain. US media has been stuffing us with lies from the state department for many years. How do you like them incubators and WMD? Well we don't talk about that stuff when our guy is in the white house. “bring me the pictures and I'll bring you the war”. This has been going on for a long time. Unfortunately, now the awesome forces of the media has been concentrated it to 3 corporate hands who only offer token resistance to government propaganda. In fact, the media is constantly airing pre-made propaganda videos with the general public completely ignorant about it. People often cannot distinguish the difference between talking head commentary and research.

Ukraine has had epic levels of financial corruption and government debt for many years. They are essentially in the same position as Greece. Most of us in the west had no idea how bad it was until we saw the video of the protesters flinging dozens of Molotov cocktails at armored police troop carriers (thinking WTF am I looking at)? I understand the conflict got rolling fast when the (unpopular at the time) Ukrainian government accepted a bailout from the Russians in exchange for favorable trade agreements with the Russian Federation. Nato, seriously butt-hurt from Syria last year, decided to take advantage of this situation by fomenting unrest and funding protesters (later Russia does pretty much the same). They took this opportunity to try to wrestle Ukraine away from favor-ability with Russia so they could install ABM and remove Russia's only warm water port and thus to our knowledge their only submarine based first strike capability. So far this hasn't worked.

The reason this bothers me is that Russia has repeatedly and openly stated they will use nuclear weapons to neutralize ABM on their boarder and I'm pretty sure it will spiral out of control after that.

Its troubling that we cannot clearly see who is behind the news. I wouldn't doubt that some of what I read is in fact paid propaganda by the Russians. But I'm certain there is very little on TV that is not scripted and staged as my first link proves.

mvanwink5
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Re: How close do you think we are from a third world war?

Post by mvanwink5 »

My view is pretty much the same, western thugs, cronies, and Banksters with supporting propaganda vs Ukrainian thugs and cronies vs Russian thugs and cronies with supporting propaganda. Ukrainians caught in the middle. I don't see this ending in war, red neck chest to chest bumping, economic sanctions which punishes real people, but Banksters and cronies always survive then skim some cream, but not blowing things up war.

Remember what Iceland did to the Banksters? Right, stiffed them. This is about western Banksters looking out for their Ukraine usury, and trying a bank shot to get Putin to toe the progressive Bankster line. I think Putin will make a deal with the Ukraine gangsters and stiff the Banksters like Iceland did, and Obama progressives will pout, Republiprogressives will try to make election hay out of this.

Right out of "1984" playbook, with variations.
Counting the days to commercial fusion. It is not that long now.

ladajo
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Re: How close do you think we are from a third world war?

Post by ladajo »

Please do not misuse the term NATO as you are playing into the hands of propagandists.
NATO does not fund destabilization. They barely have a budget to put gas in planes, ships and trucks. Of which they own few or none.

The actions of NATO are also generally morabund at best given the excessive layered decision making by commitees.
Occasionally and rarely, the members come together and do something unified and interesting, at the price of a significant amount of paperwork and subjective control for the executing parties.

In any event, for those that actually know what they are talking about, they know that Ukraine was a long way off for shifting from PfP to Member. One of the requirements for NATO that the media doesn't get is that you need to bring something to the table that augments or gap fills a NATO need. Prospective members pick a specialized function or functions and say and show, "we will do this for the alliance". Ukraine had and has not much to offer at this stage, and thus had a way to go.
Russia new this better than anyone. This can be assessed as part of the reason that Russia had puppet-boy systematically undercut the Ukrainian military. So much so that when the Russians rolled, both from those bases inside the Ukraine and from Russia proper, the Ukrainians had no guidance nor instruction on what to do, let alone any ability to actually do something. Thus they did nothing, and for the most part waited for higher HQ to provide orders that never came.
The war that wasn't.

You guys are drinking way to much internet conspiracy cool-aid. Putin loves being a punk. Russians love Putin being a punk. Opportunity knocked to pull the trigger on a plan well laid and prepped. Bam! It is done and Obama is still trying to remember what he had for breakfast.

If you think Crimea was sexy, just wait. Round two ain't far off. As for Russian military capabilities, they aren't. There is a reason they only pick on little scrawny kids. And the little boy named Georgia caused them a lot of pain. They were looking for a comeback. So they picked an even weaker kid to bully. Makes them 'look' good.

For the record, Russian gear is crap. Russian training is crap. You all have bought into the hype. Take a step back and be more critical.
The rule in arms market world is if you want it to last and work, buy american. You'll pay, but it will work and it will last. If you don't care about it working or lasting and want to save a buck you buy Chinese. If you care enough that it should work once (ish), but not so much that it will last, then you pay a little more than you would to the Chinese and buy Russian. If you want something that won't work with anything else you own, you buy French.

You ask about nuclear war. Russia never pulled the trigger because they knew our shit worked and worked well, while they also knew that their shit probably wouldn't do what it was supposed too. Reagan's biggest coup was telling the Russians straight up that we knew their shit didn't work and giving them copies of their own test reports (so the rumor goes...). At the same time he told them we were going to build even more fantastical shit that they could do nothing about to match, stop or beat. He may have been fibbing a bit on some of it. Although on some of he has was not.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

mvanwink5
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Re: How close do you think we are from a third world war?

Post by mvanwink5 »

"The whole dismissal of the EU trade agreement was clearly Putin under the table" Yes, obvious to everyone, and it cost money, so Putin was trying to avoid a larger issue, and was he just imagining the issue, reading too much internet conspiracy theories? Backfired all by itself, with no group funding from elsewhere? No covert action from elsewhere? Since when has covert operations stopped, And (NATO - US = Britain +e). What would the US interest in Ukraine be if not strategic? As you said, Ukraine had nothing in and of itself to put on the table.
No. Someone was trying to make a strategic move, who could have reason and ability? Europe??? They can't even get Fracking going.

Putin plan B is needed only to put this strategic meddling to rest. Why is plan B needed otherwise? Putin knows leftist propaganda, he lived with it his whole life. You don't think he sees the old communist guard at work here? You know them by their words and deeds follow... And what a mighty military already pre-built, easy as a little old left wing propaganda to usurp. They even use some of the old artwork, the lazy idiots.

The rest about Russian hardware and military I trust your view. Putin won't have to fight a hard fight for Ukraine with cronies in place that can make money from either side. And Europe just wants Russian gas so they don't have to Frack. And what is our strategic need if not to get Putin to toe the progressive line? He certainly is no military threat, you said so yourself.

Like I said, I only have worried eyes when i look at Democan and Republicrat progressives, as I reach for my wallet and bill of rights.
Counting the days to commercial fusion. It is not that long now.

mvanwink5
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Re: How close do you think we are from a third world war?

Post by mvanwink5 »

Speaking of Europe can't even get Fracking going, remember Tim Geithner along with the Federal Reserve bailing out Europe? I always remember it is always better to pay with money rather than blood. Well Europe never learned that lesson and it looks like Obama is calling in the bailout chips to twist Europe's Frackless arm. Caught between US's bailout debt obligation and Russia's gas needed for cold winters the IPCC said were history. It is a modern Greek play. Obama throws Europe under the bus, getting crowded under there.

edited because spell check kept changing my words (unless I use caps).
Last edited by mvanwink5 on Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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mvanwink5
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Re: How close do you think we are from a third world war?

Post by mvanwink5 »

That is what Germany gets from getting hitched to deadbeat European cousins (European Union), gas pains.
Counting the days to commercial fusion. It is not that long now.

choff
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Re: How close do you think we are from a third world war?

Post by choff »

Soros didn't install a pro NATO regime in Kiev, he installed a pro NAZI regime. I tried watching MSM reports and had to give up after 30 seconds, that's all the presstitution and war whoredom I can stand. Putin wouldn't react any differently if Reagan were in charge, he has a line he can't allow to be crossed. The Russians have upgraded enough shit that they won't be afraid to launch an all out nuclear attack if pushed. Doesn't matter if we think it's shit, not if they think it works, remember Russian nukes only have to work once.

Financial Management and Economics are even more corrupted disciplines than climate science. I've had the misfortune of being tasked to provide information on the current crisis to people who have university degrees in both. They asked me how a nuclear war would affect the stock market, I explained there would no longer be a stock market. After getting puzzled looks they then asked me how a nuclear war would affect the price of gold. I can't remember exactly what I said next but I do remember they replied that I didn't have to shout they were right there.

The problem we have is that the Banksters are now in charge of foreign policy, they are experts on balance sheets and investments, they can't read maps, they never pick up books on history, they are oblivious on military tech. They do understand that if the eastern Ukraine breaks away the western part won't be worth much until the gas fields are developed, and that will take too long for them.

If the Banksters are determined to secure the E. Ukraine by force Putin will have no choice except to send his own army in. You may question the effectiveness of the Russian army but it's probably in a lot better shape than the Ukrainian war machine. Most of the financial wizards rationalize that a nuclear war would provide an opportunities for business via a new Marshall Plan. They see this end of civilization noise as so much hysteria from the naysaying plebs, greed tends to override other considerations.

Will the public get a vote on military intervention in the Ukraine, the way we had with Syria in Britain. Does public opinion count at all?
CHoff

choff
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Re: How close do you think we are from a third world war?

Post by choff »

Some additional information on the importance of knowing how to read a map.

http://rt.com/news/nato-transit-afghanistan-russia-565/
CHoff

mvanwink5
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Re: How close do you think we are from a third world war?

Post by mvanwink5 »

Thanks for that CHoff,
I thought this article emphasizes the point I was trying to make to Ladajo:
http://rt.com/op-edge/153984-nuland-ukr ... arsonists/
Firefighters v arsonists: US confirms $5bn spent on 'Ukraine democracy'
Published time: April 22, 2014 10:38
“We continue to be concerned that you cannot dress yourself like a firefighter and behave like an arsonist,” Nuland said.
One can wonder what she was dressing herself like as she was treating Maidan activists to cookies and discussing the composition of the government which now sits in Kiev with the US ambassador to Ukraine.
Or how the $5 billion, which the US poured into “building civil society” in Ukraine helped the country overcome its inherent divisions and build a stable nation that can change its government without any street violence.
What does $5 billion look like, the good Uncle Sam or the meddling Uncle Sam? Smells to me.
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paperburn1
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Re: How close do you think we are from a third world war?

Post by paperburn1 »

And the policy’s that are upcoming will most likely ignite a wave of Russia patriotism that will rival the cold war.
I feel what is going on in Crimea is all about selling Saudi gas to the EU rather than Russian gas to the EU. And the administration is being influenced to make that happen. After all they need that money to keep control in the upcoming elections.
8)
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

Betruger
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Re: How close do you think we are from a third world war?

Post by Betruger »

So much pointing fingers at single politicians as if... Mass ignorance and apathy that elected said politicians wasn't the root cause. There's more authority from influencing from the bottom end than worrying about who votes what top end crook. A genuine American slogan would start with "We the people", not "Our leader". Obama and Putin are just symptoms. Parasites.
You can do anything you want with laws except make Americans obey them. | What I want to do is to look up S. . . . I call him the Schadenfreudean Man.

ladajo
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Re: How close do you think we are from a third world war?

Post by ladajo »

You guys are thinking too hard on this.
Putin is excuting the Ukraine grab for two reasons. One: Money Two: Power.
The money is wrapped up multi-fold. It involves GazProm cuttin gout the Ukraine middlemen, it involves direct commercial access to a warm water port, it involves direct control on Ukrainian arms industry, direct control of Ukrainina food production, and other less high on the list wins.
The Power part is central to Putin and his ego. He really is Tzar Vladimir in his head. He really thinks he is the destined life long emperor of the New Russian Empire. Playing on the old guard's sense of injustice over the collapse, as well as pure greed has done him well. He learned in Georgia that playing the tough guy gets hugh gains at home in popularity (as every Russian like to think himself a toughguy), and he also learned that he needs the former Soviet satellites infrastruture back to help cement his control of his minions and supporters.

The US was oblivious for the most part on what he was thinking. And for that matter remain so out of willfull ignorance currently. A sympton of the left is failing to recognize that someone can be more corrupt and power hungry to direct and control the lives of others than they are. I can make a long list of dictators that were appeased in history in an effort to preserve corruption positions at home that then lead to mass slaughter of the populaces on both sides.
These assholes really don't give a shit about the common man. They only think of their own "greater good".
We are headed for war on a large scale. It is in the cards, and probably 60 or so years over due.
Pick a pair. China v. US. Russia v. NATO. China v. Japan/US. etc. and so forth. The minor leaguers also watch this game, and perceive from the action of the majors when they can press on.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

mvanwink5
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Re: How close do you think we are from a third world war?

Post by mvanwink5 »

Ladajo,
Nice story, certainly parts are valid, nice painting of a Putin as this Tzar wannabe, how many selfie's does he do just for himself? His shirt off, shooting weapons is for image, but in this day and age and his political reality it works, it is a political tool. Obama's political tools are left over Communist slogans and art work. At least Putin knows Communism doesn't work. Can you imagine Putin shutting down all the coal fired power plants? There is lunacy at work, but who has a never existed before military machine behind him, not to mention the "1984" ubiquitous camera, the NSA? The only thing that worries me is enormous capability with simpleton misunderstanding of even the basic economics, economics known for several hundred years. And technology to support a progressive state communal human farm.

In a world where strategic meddling by the US, or crazed religious nuts, or leftist utopians did not exist would there be the issue of a warm port existence within ones borders? I don't think so, it would just be a market issue. The non market behavior is a keystone for progressives and said progressives have the US military machine behind them that supports the economic bully club, and that is supported by the "1984" fantasy turned into reality, the NSA spy camera. Putin is a small actor in that narrative having none of those elements.

So, you are exaggerating aspects to fit a story. Our problem is the very military and tools built to protect us have been usurped by progressives and turned against us, much less turned on others that don't toe the progressive line.
Counting the days to commercial fusion. It is not that long now.

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