Latest drug addict loons.

[williatw]

Oddly enough, folks continue to throw the race card, and refuse to look past it at economic demographics.
It is all the white man's fault after all.
Let's blame whitey. Let's torch him while we are at it, and take his stuff.

It will allow us to ignore what the real issues are. It will certainly allow us to deny any part of our own problems. We are entitled to that!

Putting more drugs on the street with easier and more access is obviously the best answer!

Free Drugs for All! Yeah! Vote for me! Yeah! Free Stuff for All! Yeah! Vote for Me! Yeah!


One question though. Once whitey is all torched up and we done took all his stuff, who we gonna blame and whose stuff we gonna take then? The chinks? Sounds good to me! Yeah!

Who said anything about free drugs? Or free anything for that matter? Or torching/robbing "whitey"? Who defended robbery or for that matter violence? And as far as blaming all their problems on "whitey", who should they blame for the 800K a year of mostly minority males arrested for pot possesion, while well-to-do white college students smoke pot like chimneys with little legal concern? The Chinese?

[williatw]

Now for Marijuana there doesn't seem to be any racial differences which I can discern.

Agreed "D" and all the studies indicate that there is little pot use difference per capita between whites and blacks. Pot possesion is far and ahead the largest percentage of that 800K or so arrested a year for narcotics. Yet there remains that pesky about 4X times greater rate of arrest/conviction/encarceration that is difficult to explain away without playing the "race card". As if it is mentioning race that causes the problem, as long as no one points it out its not there.

If MSimon's arguments\advocacy were restricted to just pot, he would likely engender less annoyance and possibly more support for his crusade. However, he advances the theory/argument that people have a fundamental right to take anything they want, and that is simply a bridge too far .

I wouldn't agree someone has a "right" to ingest whatever they want, and even if I did, there is the matter of being able to buy/sell/produce/distribute/possess whatever they want, which is a different matter. However the picture of a wealthy privileged male dead of heroin overdose, is an argument for not doing heroin, not for the WOD. My point is jailing 800K of mostly minority males obviously is no deterrence to this privileged white male being able to buy any drug he wants. The fact that heroin consumption/addiction has remained flat for 40yrs isn't a justification either; after all it was likely flat for many decades prior to Nixon's war on drugs, probably a result of lack of public interest. People just prefer their pot (and booze, cigs) to heroin; WOD notwithstanding.

[Diogenes]

The laws work by statistical averages, same as nuclear fission.


Specific individual reactions do not necessarily represent the statistical norm, and therefore results cannot be extrapolated from them.

[Diogenes]

Now for Marijuana there doesn't seem to be any racial differences which I can discern.

Agreed "D" and all the studies indicate that there is little pot use difference per capita between whites and blacks. Pot possesion is far and ahead the largest percentage of that 800K or so arrested a year for narcotics. Yet there remains that pesky about 4X times greater rate of arrest/conviction/encarceration that is difficult to explain away without playing the "race card". As if it is mentioning race that causes the problem, as long as no one points it out its not there.

It occurs to me that an over represented quantity of the non-drug crime occurs in minority neighborhoods. There may be a lamp post effect occurring here.


As the cops tend to focus on these neighborhoods anyway, the odds will be that their drug arrests will be disproportionate.

[Teahive]

The WoD ought to have as its standard for success a net positive outcome for society. It doesn't meet that standard.

[williatw]

It occurs to me that an over represented quantity of the non-drug crime occurs in minority neighborhoods. There may be a lamp post effect occurring here. As the cops tend to focus on these neighborhoods anyway, the odds will be that their drug arrests will be disproportionate.

Possibly a contribing factor, but given the history of racial bias in this country and the sheer size of the difference, around 4X times, hard to swallow that's the reason for the disparity (but not impossible I concede). However if you want to greatly lower crime, especially violent crime (and I do), best way I could think of is ending the WOD, just like repealing prohibition greatly lowered the homicide rate.

[Diogenes]

The WoD ought to have as its standard for success a net positive outcome for society. It doesn't meet that standard.

Excuse me, but the measure of success of a system designed to halt a fall is no further falling.


Again, the NORMAL CONDITION of drug addiction in a society is a logistical growth pattern. Stopping that growth from occurring is indeed a NET POSITIVE OUTCOME for society.

[Diogenes]

It occurs to me that an over represented quantity of the non-drug crime occurs in minority neighborhoods. There may be a lamp post effect occurring here. As the cops tend to focus on these neighborhoods anyway, the odds will be that their drug arrests will be disproportionate.

Possibly a contribing factor, but given the history of racial bias in this country and the sheer size of the difference, around 4X times, hard to swallow that's the reason for the disparity (but not impossible I concede). However if you want to greatly lower crime, especially violent crime (and I do), best way I could think of is ending the WOD, just like repealing prohibition greatly lowered the homicide rate.

I don't know about lowering the homicide rate, it's my understanding that alcohol kills about 75,000 people every year.

As for ending violent crime, I perceive the problem as being the consequence of society not only tolerating, but encouraging the absence of fathers as heads of families.


You CAN'T make a society peaceful by enforcement. The people who make up it's members have to voluntarily agree as to what behavior is acceptable and what behavior is not, and this agreement needs to be heartfelt by the vast majority of the populace.

Respect for rules begins with Fathers being present in families, and insuring the appropriate training during the developing stages of adolescence. I think the bible says that "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."


This is how society can be made to work. As Edmund Burke said:


The use of force alone is but temporary. It may subdue for a moment; but it does not remove the necessity of subduing again: and a nation is not governed, which is perpetually to be conquered.

[paperburn1]

FYI...Heroin usage is on the rise as the past two years.

[GIThruster]

WOD...somehow arresting jailing 800K a year of mostly minority males for mostly pot possession didn't stop this privileged white male from being able to buy all the Heroin he wanted. . .

You keep pretending the WoD is all about incarcerating people. It's not. Just for a change, why don't you look at the real benefits of the WoD, starting with the same interdiction process that stops bombs?

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/drug_in ... YfWza.dpbs

[ladajo]

The simple matter is that you fail to see that your "4X" & "800K" statistic is meaningless and out of context. It is also not accurate.



Here are some usage breakouts by ethnicity. Notice that the usage rates are not that different in the aggregate.



Now look at this one, it shows you that folks who use and work, tend to use drugs less often (more responsible behaviour) than those who use and don't. It can also tell you that you need money to buy drugs and it would appear it is easier to work for money to get drugs than get the money another way.



Arrest rates are directly proportional to economic condition. Lower income folks have higher arrest rates. Period.
Now ask why. It has nothing to do with drugs or a racial bias in the system. It has to do with basic crime and punishment theory. Also note that arrest rates are indepedant of prosecution and conviction rates. Lots of folks get arrested. A large number of them never see a courtroom.

Here is a chart that demonstrates the disparity of income by race (and gender). See any related pattern here with regard to arrest rates?



Here is one on obesity, or laziness factor if you wish to see it that way...sadly, folks who work regularly and have higher average incomes tend to less obese than those who don't.



Here is another on income demographic trends in Chicago, a hotbed of drugs, crime and unemployment for "blacks":



and another for the nation regarding poverty break outs:



Here, play with this link, you may find it illuminating:

Unemployment demographics

Where I live, there are not a lot of black people. There are drug arrests, and according to local PDs, drugs and trafficking is the biggest problem they have to deal with, also the highest risk given the unstable nature of the users and dealers (most of which around here are also users).

Guess who has the highest drug arrest rate around here? It aint' the blacks. Its whitey. Specifically, low income whitey. And more specifically, the subsidised housing tenants demographic group.

Now, imagine you are a judge. In front of you is a person, who is employed, going to school and not been in a court before to face charges. Are you going to consider that this person has some potential, and may become a contributing member of society verses a drain? Probably so. Given that, you have a spectrum choice to make. From crush them to slap them. Odds are, you are going to make a choice somewher eon the slap end.
Now, you are a judge again. In front of you is a person, who is unemployed or erractically employed, not going to school, and been in court more than once before. Are you going to consider this person has the same potential to become a contributing member of society as the aforementioned person? Odds are not. So given that, you are probably going to think that this person needs a stronger slap or punisment to get the message across.

This has nothing to do with race, it has everything to do with the person. And low income persons are unfortunately the demographic group that while including folks that are just trying to get by, also includes folks that aren't. And the aren'ts are the ones who run afoul of society time and time again.

Maybe you should ask yourself why folks on entitlement programs are more likely to be arrested or use drugs?
Apparently entitlement programs are a great evil and must be eliminated. They are also racist.

And a final point:
The War on Drugs does appear to be working, availability perceptions for teens are dropping:

[Diogenes]

FYI...Heroin usage is on the rise as the past two years.

Within the range of the noise floor.


Even Pro-Drug Libertarian REASON says so.


http://reason.com/blog/2014/02/03/is-heroin-use-soaring


It's just noise. If it continues to increase for several years, THEN it is a signal.

[paperburn1]

I have friends in the medical profession and they say it is a growing problem because of the crackdown on Oxycontin. Cant get their pills so they are going for heroin. They are exchanging one opiate for another.

[choff]

If they don't crack down on Oxycotin, they won't be able to sell all the opium they've promoted in Afghanistan.

Thing I remember from around '72, all us brand new high schoolers were gathered in a gym sitting around the walls in a ring after staff intro's and games. Then all the staff left the gym same time, a dealer came in and a joint was passed around the gym, me and one or two others were the only ones who would't take a hit. Then the staff came back right on cue after the complete go round and the dealer just left.

Was looking at one of MSimons videos where a guy said he was introduced to drugs in the Eagle Scouts, his brother got into hard drugs from a dealer right outside his rehab. If I didn't know better, I'd say that drugs are very deliberately promoted by older people on younger ones as social policy.

[williatw]

The simple matter is that you fail to see that your "4X" & "800K" statistic is meaningless and out of context. It is also not accurate.
Arrest rates are directly proportional to economic condition. Lower income folks have higher arrest rates. Period.
Now ask why. It has nothing to do with drugs or a racial bias in the system. It has to do with basic crime and punishment theory. Also note that arrest rates are indepedant of prosecution and conviction rates. Lots of folks get arrested. A large number of them never see a courtroom.

It merely proves that poor people are more likely to be arrested and therefore more likely to be convicted and incarcerated than affluent people, not that there is no racial bias. You could have done the same statistical study in the 1930's American South. I am sure the poor who were disproportionally black, were more likely to be arrested/tried/convicted/incarcerated than the well-to-do of any race. Doesn't prove that the South wasn't racist, only that money/class is/was a bigger factor in putting you away than race; even that doesn't consider the role of racism in making/keeping you poor in the 1st place. According to wikipedia on US demographics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographi ... ted_States

There are 224million whites and 39 million black; According to one of your charts 28% of blacks are below poverty line (.28X39= 11 million blacks) 10% whites (.10X 224= 22.4 million white). Given similar usage rates for these poor, there should be more than two whites sitting in jail for pot possession for every black sitting in jail for the same.