Science Fiction

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tombo
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Science Fiction

Postby tombo » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:44 pm

Hmmmm…
Plasma is almost super conducting
Lighting is order of 2MegAmp
Lighting scar diameters 1” to 6” (confined only by its own z-pinch).
Talk about high temperature superconductors.
Nah, it can’t be that easy
Plasma Conduits!
Save us from ourselves.
Last edited by tombo on Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tom Ligon
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Postby Tom Ligon » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:49 pm

You left out ball lightning.

Look up Dr. Paul Koloc and ball lightning.

This idea is basically a tokamak distorted into a sphere. Once formed, it needs no containment because the shape naturally sustains itself. The magnetic component could pass thru glass (a property of ball lightning most other models can't explain).

And it is not out of the question these things could do fusion.

http://www.neoteric-research.org/isbl1999_paper1.pdf

Tom Ligon
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Postby Tom Ligon » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:41 pm

I don't know how long the link below will stay active, so I'll attach a snip of text. Somebody built a "flying saucer" that runs on plasma. I'm not buying stock yet, but I would like to see the demo. Let's see, power it with a BFR, use plasma conduits to get the juice to the outside ....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/200 ... nsonplasma

"New Flying Saucer Runs on Plasma

"Greg Soltis, Staff Writer, LiveScience.com

"A flying saucer is in the works, but it didn't come from space. It came from Florida.

"Subrata Roy, an engineering professor at the University of Florida, is trying to patent his design of a circular, spinning aircraft he dubs WEAV, short for wingless electromagnetic air vehicle." (see the link for the rest)

In some ways what this thing proposes is not too different from Dr. Bussard's "air breathing" SSTO that could use a REB-heating system to produce thrust from air.

drmike
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Postby drmike » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:54 pm

Here is a link to the patent application.

It's called "micro hovering device" and can't lift much. Here is some core text:
In an embodiment, the electrodes of the actuator shown in Figure 6A can be powered at a selected phase difference. For a low niA range current and few hundred volts rms potential difference applied between the electrodes, a glow (micro) discharge plasma is generated with density 10^12 - 10^13 Cm^-1 due to an electric field of 10^6 -10^7 volt/cm. The thickness of this plasma is within a few Debye lengths, i.e., a few mm to less than a mm. The induced qE force is very local, but the Lorentz interaction of this body force with the surrounding fluid produces a gradually accelerating wall jet spinning along the conical inner and outer surface of the device. This spinning wall jet will induce a vortex of strength F.


Interesting for sure.

kurt9
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Ball Lightning

Postby kurt9 » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:09 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong. But I heard that Silicon combustion was determined to be the cause of ball lightning, a much more prosaic explanation than others I have heard. Is this correct?

This plasmak approach strikes me as rather fanciful. I first heard about it in the mid 90's. I used to know a guy who worked with Paul Kovacs for a while during this time. Are "plasmoids" real? I had never heard of them before reading Paul Kovac's paper about them on-line and I have never heard of them anywhere else.

Of all of the various fusion schemes, the only two that strike me as potentially real are the polywell and Norman Rostaker's approach.

Tom Ligon
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Postby Tom Ligon » Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:14 pm

I met Dr. Koloc when he visited the EMC2 lab in Manassas Park. Dr. Bussard knew him already. Paul presented his ideas on ball lightning, and Dr. Bussard thought it was probably correct. After Paul left, Dr. Bussard confided that he thought Paul's spheromak idea (he claims to have originated it and was ripped off) was one of the better alternative approaches to fusion.

There are probably several physical phenomena that look like ball lightning, but the real stuff does not involve anything but air and high voltage. It has the unique ability to pass thru glass (my sisters saw it happen once). It is difficult to explain this property if the energy is not carried essentially as a magnetic field.

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:25 pm

I once had a personal experience with ball lightning. About 3/4 of a m across glowing green. Moving slowly. Scared the hell out of me.

It happened inside a geodesic dome that had a long wire antenna connected. (Ham radio stuff).

I watched it while slowly backing away. It dissipated in about 10 seconds more or less.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
http://protonboron.com/
THE OPEN POLYWELL FUSION CONSORTIUM

drmike
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Postby drmike » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:45 am

Ball lightning is supposed to be rare stuff, but I've seen it too! Walking in the rain and watching a thunder storm when regular lightning smacked a telephone pole. Launched a nice ball down the power line for a long ways - I was very happy to watch it go away from me.

Curioser and curiouser :D

choff
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Postby choff » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:13 am

I once heard a story about ball lightning following a woman into her kitchen, so she hit it with a fly swatter! Knocked it to the floor where it disappeared.
CHoff

ravingdave
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Postby ravingdave » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:37 pm

MSimon wrote:I once had a personal experience with ball lightning. About 3/4 of a m across glowing green. Moving slowly. Scared the hell out of me.

It happened inside a geodesic dome that had a long wire antenna connected. (Ham radio stuff).

I watched it while slowly backing away. It dissipated in about 10 seconds more or less.



Did I understand you to say you saw a ball lightning that was 3/4 of a Meter across ? I have never heard of such a large ball lightning, and it would certainly scare the hell out of me !


David

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:29 am

ravingdave wrote:
MSimon wrote:I once had a personal experience with ball lightning. About 3/4 of a m across glowing green. Moving slowly. Scared the hell out of me.

It happened inside a geodesic dome that had a long wire antenna connected. (Ham radio stuff).

I watched it while slowly backing away. It dissipated in about 10 seconds more or less.



Did I understand you to say you saw a ball lightning that was 3/4 of a Meter across ? I have never heard of such a large ball lightning, and it would certainly scare the hell out of me !


David


Yeah about 2 to 3 ft across. Due to a lightening hit on my grounded antenna. Or a close strike induced current. I looked at the spark gap (an old spark plug gapped to a couple of thou on top of a pipe pounded 6 ft into the ground) and it didn't look like it had carried any current.

It felt scary and and I just wanted to run. But it was so interesting I stayed to watch until it dissipated. Backing away slowly.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
http://protonboron.com/
THE OPEN POLYWELL FUSION CONSORTIUM

drmike
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Postby drmike » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:43 am

The one I saw was at least a meter across. But it was way far away on top of power lines, so I only was interested in how cool it was. I should have been thinking about what the power lines were doing and wondering if they were stable (they were, but continuing forward toward the electricity and lightning was not too bright a thing to do!)

Ball lightning as large as 5 meters across has been reported. And as small as 5 cm too.

Very interesting stuff!

Solo
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Postby Solo » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:22 pm

Very cool! My grandfather said he saw some on a camping trip once, but didn't tell much detail. I've always wished I'd see some one day.

kurt9
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Plasmak and Focus Fusion look similar

Postby kurt9 » Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:50 pm

There is a pdf description of how plasmoids form on Dr. Koloc's PrometheusII website. There is a slide show on Eric Lerner's Focus Fusion website that displays the formation of the plasmoids in Eric Lerner's proposed device. The plasmoid formation in both websites looks remarkably similar. In both cases, a plasmoid with a helical design is formed that is supposed to capable of fusion reactions.

The two fusions concepts look quite similar. Can anyone here comment on the validity of these concepts and on the validity of plasmoids in general?

drmike
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Postby drmike » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:22 pm

You can generate plasmoids in a microwave oven. The old style with the moving fan works really well because the fan moves the plasma balls around.

Generating a spherical plasma is not hard with outside power. Or like a star - with gravity.
A stable pllasma for power generation is another story because it contains internal power.

One solution to that is to not even bother trying to maintain stability. That is where pellet and laser fusion ideas come from. Or Z-pinch - it blows itself apart but generates enough power to create the next pulse (in theory anyway).

A plasma ball is just one possible configuration, there are lots of other ways to try to do fusion. I'm pretty sure not all of them have been found yet!


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