Talk-Polywell.org

Keegan · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:16 am Post subject:

Dr Nebel, at the moment the DoD is picking up the tab for WB7. If they are paying for it, do they own any of it ? I believe EMC2 is the owner of several key patents on the polywell system, but i also believe that any US patents can be aquired in the interests of national security.

You mentioned the contract is to August. Logically future DoD contracts are pending WB7 results/review. So if all is well, this will most likely leave the DoD funding the next few iterations of WB.

Its nice to know your vision is inline with Dr Bussard's richeous idealism. Although a reasonable person could suggest that the DoD may not share such views. Especially while its mounting such an expensive campaign in the middle east.

We know its going to be a long road to net power. As outputs improve, one can expect the powers that be, will flex some muscle. In that case we have a precedent where keeping things open will get things accomplished in 5 years instead of 10.

Something new just "clicks" everyday. It is an amazing concept. Alas, The question in my mind is not "Is this going to work ?"

but "whats gonna happen next ?"

rnebel · Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 144

I'm not sure that I know the answers to all of your questions, but I'll tell you what I do know. First of all EMC2 owns the patents and the commercialization rights. DOD retains the right to use the technology free of charge. That's a pretty standard arrangement.

As for DOD taking control of the technology, I think that's pretty unlikely. The most similar parallel to this that I can think of was the development of fission power. Both nuclear fission propulsion and commercial power were developed in parallel. It isn't a coincidence that both systems are LWRs. I expect a similar situation here. Everyone that I have talked to at the DOD understands that energy supply is a major national security issue. It's not in the national interest of the US to keep this technology from going commercial. Furthermore, this project has never been classified. Fusion research world-wide was declassified in 1958 by international treaty.

Finally, I appreciate your concern about research being slowed down by the lack of dialogue. My previous research at LANL (POPS for instance) was always public domain. The reason we did it that way is because we figured that the patents would run out before we could commercialize it and the benefits of having it critiqued outweighed the drawbacks of getting "scooped". I still feel that way, but I have a little different responsibilities at EMC2. We have a responsibility to get this technology developed in a timely manner and I also have a responsibility to look after the interests of our employees and the corporation.

MSimon · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject:

rnebel,

The fact that you are collecting time domain information is a really great improvement over the crude data collection done on WB-6.

In my proposal for a continuously operating test reactor (I called it WB-7x) time domain collection of data was an important part of my proposal.

My hat is off to you and your team sir. Top notch. And to be doing all you are doing with such a relatively small budget. Excellent. Too much money has a way of killing projects that is often unrecognized. I'm hoping you are in that sweet spot of just a little too much (to take advantage of the unexpected and to also be able to repair the unexpected).

Have you considered renting a real time spectrum analyzer such as:

http://www.tek.com/products/spectrum_analyzers/

http://www.tek.com/products/spectrum_analyzers/rsa3000/

http://www.tek.com/products/spectrum_analyzers/rsa6100a/

when you get to the point where such data would be useful in order to get a better handle on the inner workings of the plasma?
_________________
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

rnebel · Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 144

M. Simon:

Thanks for the links. We do have spectrum analyzers in our data system. I suspect that these will be of increasing value as we get more sophisiticated diagnostics

laksindiaforfusion · Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 22

Hi Dr Nebel,

I have a quick question:

If EMC2 demonstrates a significant commercialization possibility with IEC, what is the chance that it can be exported to private operators in countries such as India or China? Does the DoD prevent that?

Hopefully this is an ok question to ask!

Thanks
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The believer's burden and a skeptics purpose

MSimon · Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:15 am Post subject:

rnebel,

The spectrum analyzers I linked to are special in that they can analyze pulses as short as about 11 uSec. You are limited to a 15 MHz or 30 MHz band but the band can be any where in the DC to 40 GHz range (depending on the analyzer).

They came on the market due to the need to analyze devices such as Bluetooth and zigbee.
_________________
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

gblaze42 · Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Posts: 227

rnebel · Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 144

general answers:

We don't see major issues to exporting the technology. Right now any follow-ons to the WB-7 are up in the air. We have time resolution down to the sub-microsecond range. That's pretty typical for magnetic fusion experiments. That gives resolution down to the ion inertial timescale.

gblaze42 · Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Posts: 227

laksindiaforfusion · Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 22

zbarlici · Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 171 Location: winnipeg, canada

Dr. Nebel realize that should this polywell work his name will go down in history. Just a thought.

MSimon · Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject:

Gentlemen,

We are all making history here. Even the lurkers.
_________________
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MrE · Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:41 pm Post subject:

Lurker reporting for duty! *salutes*

I have been a busy little bee drawing the first wall and magrid in Autocad '06. I have been making the shapes in 3-d there then opening them in 3d studio max '09 for animation and texturing.

I also have been soldering/constructing an RF power source which can be used to grow the first wall materials in the shapes I have drawn in software.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXHjAf6POKE
Similar to the above video by a German Enthusiast.

Lurker over-and-out.

:-)

TallDave · Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Posts: 2040

Heh. Well, we're only making history if this actually pans out into a commercially viable energy producing technology.

Otherwise, we're making a very, very small footnote to history.

Still, Polywell's a legitimate shot at changing the world, which is why I keep checking this every day to see if Dr. Nebel has favored us with any new developments or discoveries that might illuminate which way things will fall out.

Nice video, MrE. I could almost smell the ozone!