Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

[Diogenes]

wow you just called for the execution of most teenagers.

No I didn't, but I have no doubt that you will constantly CLAIM that I did.

Extreme version of 'spare the rod and spoil the child'.

No it isn't. Your suggestion that it is, is another example of a deliberate lie, a willful attempt to mislead. The usage of lethal means for self defense against large and violent assailants is not tantamount to the "execution of most teenagers."

and the irony of your last sentence is just stupendous.

There is no irony for anyone with an ability to perceive things accurately. Because your thinking exists in a world of twisted reality, it just seems ironic to you. Rational people do not share your erroneous misconceptions.


May you grow up faster.

[Diogenes]

Don't forget to post the pics of Trayvon playing with guns and talking about buying and selling them to make money (for drugs).

I had forgotten about that. Yes, there was a picture of Travon brandishing a gun.





From Travon's cell phone images.

[ScottL]

Looks like a stereo-typical teenager. I did far worse things than posting pictures of smoking and a picture of a gun before and I turned out perfectly fine. Furthermore, kids do dumb shit....epically dumb shit...often and that's where parents come in to sort them out. As I remember, Trayvon was sent to his fathers' to be "sorted out" and that's how this whole thing happened. He was a high school kid no different than most college freshmen/sophomores.

As for Zimmerman, he's been pulled over twice for speeding. He's been reported as threatening his soon to be ex-wife twice now, the latest reportedly with his gun brandished. Even if her and her father are unwilling to file charges, this man is on the fast track to arrest and/or hurting someone else very soon. He's not stable and probably never was a stable individual.

[paperburn1]

The nice thing of being over 40 is all my dumb S$%t stuff is not on the internet
, The kid was way down a bad road before he was sent by his mother to his fathers house because "she was afraid of him and could not handle him any more." her words not mine.
Being a member of a community watch program there are rules, Zimmerman violated one of them by trying to follow the kid instead of using his call list. (every watch member in our unit has a call list of all the neighbors. When something flaky goes down you call everyone in that area to keep an Eye out) you also call 911.
When Travon jumped Zimmerman four minutes after Zimmerman lost him (fact pointed out and not disputed at the trial) Travon had the option to go home instead of escalating the confrontation. He did not do that.
Zimmerman had the right to defend himself. It was this four minute cessation that put Zimmerman in the right and all his previous behavior not to be considered ,even the fact he was carrying a gun when the recommendations are no weapons for citizens watch members is not to be armed or confrontational.
Contrary to reports by the Media, Zimmerman did not use the stand your ground defense but self defense in fear for his life after an attack.
The closing arguments made the case. The defense attorney remained silent and standing for four minutes to prove that there was time for both party's to disengage and go their separate ways. Do that one thing before you respond start a watch and wait four minutes
Bottom line Two people made two very bad choices and a life was lost, neither was innocent

[Diogenes]

Looks like a stereo-typical teenager. I did far worse things than posting pictures of smoking and a picture of a gun before and I turned out perfectly fine.

Funny, you don't strike me as perfectly fine. You strike me as someone with serious difficulties of perception and/or holes in your knowledge base, but who yet has a potential impact on the course of governance.

Furthermore, kids do dumb shit....epically dumb shit...often and that's where parents come in to sort them out. As I remember, Trayvon was sent to his fathers' to be "sorted out" and that's how this whole thing happened. He was a high school kid no different than most college freshmen/sophomores.

And I will wager you a doughnut hole that the reason he needed sorting out was because his father was absent during most of the period of time which would have sorted him out in the first place.

Simon will tell you that the Drug war is the cause of absent fathers, but I have always maintained that it is the result of multiple factors, not the least of which has been the government's policies which make fathers unnecessary for survival. That kid is the product of an artificial habitat created by government, and he is simply another consequence of a child growing up without necessary discipline normally applied by a father.

As for Zimmerman, he's been pulled over twice for speeding.

Yes, what a crime. Crucify the bastard!

He's been reported as threatening his soon to be ex-wife twice now, the latest reportedly with his gun brandished. Even if her and her father are unwilling to file charges, this man is on the fast track to arrest and/or hurting someone else very soon.

You are misstating the truth. You are creating a deliberate false impression of the facts. The woman made false accusations against him during a domestic argument. She was lying until she found out that there was video evidence and then she recanted her claim.


At this point it has been admitted that Zimmerman (good Democrat he) did NOT brandish a gun during this incident.

He's not stable and probably never was a stable individual.

If that were an issue, I can think of countless people who would suffer any consequences it might require.


I don't know any completely sane people, including me.

[Diogenes]

Bottom line Two people made two very bad choices and a life was lost, neither was innocent

No. George Zimmerman was fully within his rights to do everything he did. If Zimmerman made a mistake, it was that he didn't pull his gun out quicker. It might have saved Travon's life.


All actual blame lies with Travon Martin.

[ScottL]

We disagree and on most topics always will. You view that as delusional or incomplete, and I view you the same way.

You are misstating the truth. You are creating a deliberate false impression of the facts. The woman made false accusations against him during a domestic argument. She was lying until she found out that there was video evidence and then she recanted her claim.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/zimmerman-dome ... d=20227863

The dispute ended with George Zimmerman briefly in handcuffs and an iPad Shellie Zimmerman said she had been using to videotape events smashed.
Florida police said today that forensic investigators were unable to extract any video from the iPad. As a result, police are not expected to file charges against either George or Shellie Zimmerman regarding the dispute anytime soon, if ever.

I think perhaps you misread or were misinformed of the more recent domestic situation.

[williatw]

We disagree and on most topics always will. You view that as delusional or incomplete, and I view you the same way.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/zimmerman-dome ... d=20227863

The dispute ended with George Zimmerman briefly in handcuffs and an iPad Shellie Zimmerman said she had been using to videotape events smashed.
Florida police said today that forensic investigators were unable to extract any video from the iPad. As a result, police are not expected to file charges against either George or Shellie Zimmerman regarding the dispute anytime soon, if ever.

I think perhaps you misread or were misinformed of the more recent domestic situation.

From your link:
In the police report, however, an officer wrote that "the evidence did not support the original complaint and based on this information [George Zimmerman] was taken out of handcuffs." ...Police said they also found no signs of "trauma, redness, or marks of any kind" in the area where her father, David Dean, said he was struck. Police added that "none of the witnesses to the event could corroborate ... [the] account of the battery." ...Samantha Schelbe, who was in the passenger seat of George Zimmerman's car, was "visibly shaken" by the ordeal, police said. Schelbe told police George Zimmerman never touched anyone and said that there were guns in the vehicle but that they had concealed weapons permits for them.
Neither Shellie Zimmerman nor her father said they actually saw a weapon, according to the police report.

[GIThruster]

Whatever we might make of Zimmerman now, that tells us little about the man he was back when he shot Travon. Events like these change people--sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse--but they do change people.

Participating in character assassination based on speeding tickets and domestic disputes years after the fact is irrational in the extreme.

Personally, it seems obvious to me the entire Zimmerman case was fabricated by the intervention of CNN, who doctored the audio tape, ran hours of stuff on Anderson 360, and pressured the authorities to press charges when the officers on the case had originally made the correct finding: that there was no evidence of anything but self defense. That's what the courts finally found so whining they should have found differently and that Zimmerman is a terrible, messed up guy (after all, he has speeding tickets) is just irrational nonsense.

To date, the evidence is, Trevon had Zimmerman on the ground and was beating him mercilessly. He was on drugs, young and strong, and obviously violent. Had he not been violent, he would still be alive.

End of case.

[ScottL]

Willatw, as you'll note, there was no recanting, just a he-said/she-said. It wouldn't matter though as both FIL and soon to be ex-wife were unwilling to file charges and just wanted the ordeal over with. I think that is a perfectly reasonable response. I believe the police originally stated that the gun may have been drawn, however; with no evidence, that conclusion can't be made.

GIT, to clarify, it hasn't been years yet and his recent minor brushes with the law were within 6 months of the trial. What that means exactly, not a whole lot alone. Adding the domestic starts to show a person who is either unraveling or was already unraveled. Since we've never spent a day in the life of Mr. Zimmerman pre and post events, we can't know for certain. What I would say is based on his record prior to the Trayvon incident and his quickly (however minor) record after, I'd lean towards him never being all that stable. I still contend to this day that he was the adult and should've made much better decisions, and in my opinion should've been charged with criminal negligence resulting in a death of a minor.

[ladajo]

End of case.

Well, not quite. You see Trayvon was black. So that means it will always be a case. No matter Zimmerman being right or wrong.

Personally, I am in the Dumb Ass Punk Kid picked one street fight he couldn't win. Don't bring fists to a gun fight. And never start a fight with someone you can't beat or can't outrun. So let's see. Fist does not beat gun. Feet does not outrun bullet. Yup, dumb ass who should've keep walking away. One that let his whole "Street Fighter" punk life go to his head.

[williatw]

Willatw, as you'll note, there was no recanting, just a he-said/she-said. It wouldn't matter though as both FIL and soon to be ex-wife were unwilling to file charges and just wanted the ordeal over with. I think that is a perfectly reasonable response. I believe the police originally stated that the gun may have been drawn, however; with no evidence, that conclusion can't be made.

I never mentioned "recanting" only posted quotes from the link posted. Police at the scene didn't feel the evidence (other witnesses & physical evidence) supported the allegations made by Zimmerman's soon to be ex and her dad. Add to that neither side being interested in filing charges as you noted. As for Zimmerman's "stability" allot could be said about Martin's stability. He was shown in his cell phone records as being a user of a street drug known as "lean", two of the three ingredients needed to make he bought at the store shortly before encountering Zimmerman. A drug that in addition causes liver damage when regularly abused (his autopsy I believe showed considerable liver damage inconsistent with his age and generally good health).

[GIThruster]

I didn't know about the "Lean" but I know his blood work showed he was high when he was killed--THC in the blood.

[williatw]

I still contend to this day that he was the adult and should've made much better decisions, and in my opinion should've been charged with criminal negligence resulting in a death of a minor.

I would agree that if there was a case against Zimmerman it would have been the aforementioned by you or some kind of manslaughter. That is Zimmerman's actions, profiling, following Martin (though not illegal in and of themselves), therefore arguably provoking the violent encounter. That is at fault for causing the situation. Of course the defense would have argued that at the moment Zimmerman pulled the trigger he was pinned to the ground being pummeled, by the letter of the law, making it self-defense, regardless of what preceded it. But Angela Corey decided to go for broke and charge him with 2nd degree murder, which almost no one thinks she had a case for. The prosecution then was able to add more charges incredibly after they & the defense had rested their case, which even more amazingly is legal under Florida law.

[paperburn1]

Diogenes
I never stated Zimmerman wan not within his rights.
quote
Zimmerman had the right to defend himself. It was this four minute cessation that put Zimmerman in the right and all his previous behavior not to be considered ,even the fact he was carrying a gun when the recommendations are no weapons for citizens watch members is not to be armed or confrontational. end-quote
and your right if he had seen him coming and pulled his gun earlier this whole thing may have never been more than a blotter entry
and yes Florida does have some very interesting takes on the law, that is why so many cases try to get a trial in Florida and also why the awards are so disproportional high in Flordia